Haste and Refocus

[kreynolds]

I can't believe he missed that one.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't think he missed anything.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I'm surprised that people find the summon monster spells useless. I'll admit that Summon Monster I and II aren't particularly useful but at least for clerics Summon Monster III and above are quite useful. A celestial bison on your side beats Prayer any day. A celestial lion isn't bad either. By the time you reach Summon Monster VI, a Celestial Dire bear is a great use of a round.

 

[kreynolds]

I'm surprised that people find the summon monster spells useless.

So am I. In the last session I played in, our Air Genasi cleric summoned a Thoqua(sp?), and let me tell you, that sucker can kick the crap outta dire wolves.

 

[Dr_Rictus]

My problem is more fundamental. Why even bother to refocus.

Mainly, because you're delaying and you still don't have anything good to do.

You can only delay until an initiative count of -10, minus your initiative bonus. At that point, you must take an action, or lose your action for that round. Typically, if you find yourself in this situation, you refocus, generally to start delaying again shortly thereafter.

The main upshot of this is that if two or more characters are delaying to see what the other(s) will do, the impasse is handled in a way which continues to fit into the turn order of other, non-delaying characters (which requires that another round is called and the initiative count wrap around at some point) with the advantage going to character(s) with the higher bonus.

 

[AuraSeer]

I'm surprised that people find the summon monster spells useless. [...] By the time you reach Summon Monster VI, a Celestial Dire bear is a great use of a round.

Yeah, that seems to be the monster of choice. Not for nothing, but it seems to be overpowered for its level.

The latest Dragon (#302) has some additonal monster tables, and rules for adding more summonables. According to the article, Summon VI should bring a monster of CR 7 (or less if it has special abilities). The Celestial Dire Bear is CR 9.

'Course, since this is from the magazine and not a splatbook, take it with a grain of sugar. (Too much salt is bad for you.)

 

[strongbow]

Summary of thread thus far

From what I can tell, ( and have posted myself on page 1) there are 4 different interpretations on refocus/haste, but I am going to throw a wrinkle in things here because of the feat "A Single Moment" from Rokugan.

1: Refocus is a full-round action, during which you may take a 5-ft step, a haste partial action, and even cast a quickened spell.

2: Refocus is a full-round action, during which you may NOT take a 5-ft step, but you still may take a haste partial action, and/or cast a quickened spell.

3: Refocus is a special full-round action, which takes an entire round including any partial actions from haste, during which you still may take a 5-ft step as the only other thing. (This one is particularly bad IMO)

4: Refocus is a special full-round action, and you may do NOTHING else during your initiative count.

5: If you have the feat "A Single Moment" from Rokugan, you may refocus as a MEA, per the feat description. You still get a standard action, your haste partial action, and a 5-ft adjustment.

Also, your interpretation of how refocus works might hinge on how you currently handle other full-round actions. Some people contend that if you are hasted before your initiative count, you may take a full-round action and have the effects of the FRA take place before your hasted partial action (My opinion). Others say, no you can't, the effects appear next round no matter what.

Anybody have anything else to add about haste/refocus? The effectiveness of summon monster spells and personal flame wars have no place on this thread. This is probably close to the last post, but I thought I would summarize for all.

 

[mkletch]

I'm surprised that people find the summon monster spells useless. I'll admit that Summon Monster I and II aren't particularly useful but at least for clerics Summon Monster III and above are quite useful. A celestial bison on your side beats Prayer any day. A celestial lion isn't bad either. By the time you reach Summon Monster VI, a Celestial Dire bear is a great use of a round.

Dispel magic. Poof. Nobody will bother to dispel a prayer, but a summoned creature? Sure thing.

Plus, long casting times sort-of shout "big spell", and draw ranged attacks, charges, spells, the kitchen sink... It's just not worth the risk to let it go off.

When we do have a combat, it is usually a more flowing event. Being locked in place for a whole round can really hurt (from experience).

-Fletch!

 

[mkletch]

The latest Dragon (#302) has some additonal monster tables, and rules for adding more summonables. According to the article, Summon VI should bring a monster of CR 7 (or less if it has special abilities). The Celestial Dire Bear is CR 9.

'Course, since this is from the magazine and not a splatbook, take it with a grain of sugar. (Too much salt is bad for you.)

I'm not subscribed to Dragon, but this might make it worth picking up this issue. Granted, I could make up my own system, but having a common point of reference (official or unofficial) would be a nice touch.

-Fletch!

 

[daemonslye]

strongbow -

You may want to check out Tome and Blood p.80,
Casting Times, before ruling on what haste will allow
(I went through the same process. doh!).

1: Refocus is a full-round action, during which you may take a 5-ft step, a haste partial action, and even cast a quickened spell.

I think the SRD covers the movement part - "no move". The FAQ
is simply wrong associated with the movement. However, the
FAQ is clear "cannot act" which would extend to haste effects.

2: Refocus is a full-round action, during which you may NOT take a 5-ft step, but you still may take a haste partial action, and/or cast a quickened spell.

The FAQ covers this "cannot act".

3: Refocus is a special full-round action, which takes an entire round including any partial actions from haste, during which you still may take a 5-ft step as the only other thing. (This one is particularly bad IMO)

As I said, I think the FAQ is just wrong in this regard. Otherwise,
if you rule the FAQ overrides the SRD then this is the rule.

4: Refocus is a special full-round action, and you may do NOTHING else during your initiative count.

This seems to be the most likely interpretation IMO.

5: If you have the feat "A Single Moment" from Rokugan, you may refocus as a MEA, per the feat description. You still get a standard action, your haste partial action, and a 5-ft adjustment.

I dont use non-core supplements for rules so I dont have any
opinion here.

I think the topic is done - I thought I might have found a use
for the downtrodden refocus action, however, it seems I am
wrong. It will be available to those who have nothing better
to do during the round (watching "paid advertisements" in the
middle of the day not withstanding).

"Looks around.... Looks back at browser open to a non-work
web site.... Hmmmm, I Refocus."

~D

 

[kreynolds]

...take it with a grain of sugar. (Too much salt is bad for you.)

Sounds like a perfect use for my new weapon and armor material!