haste question

[Dandu]

I've been thinking, and I think the "similar effect" clause would rule out two speed weapons both giving extra attacks.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yeah, RAW they couldn't stack. I'd allow it, though. IMO, speed is way too costly for one weapon as it is, let alone 2. You want to blow all that money on 2 speed weapons, go for it.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

This is one of those times when the exact read as written doesn't really keep up with the game. If Haste doesn't grant an extra attack with both weapons then it loses value for TWF builds, further lowering their potential.

There's also some issues with the wording itself. "One extra attack with any weapon" can be ambiguous. Yes, the general consensus is it's one attack regardless of number of weapons. It can still be interpreted as "you may make an extra attack with any of your weapons" which would mean an extra attack per weapon. No, it is not intentionally misreading it to get a greater benefit. The wording means you have a choice to make an extra attack with any of your weapons. Any is not mutually exclusive with all.

I'd rule Haste allows for extra attacks, one per weapon. It loses a lot of power otherwise for anyone using more than one weapon, and such characters typically need a leg up to compete with the single weapon options.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

But then you can get the opposite problem: Abuse by Thri-Kreen and other many armed races and/or in tandem with the Girallon's Blessing spell.

I'd be fine if it limited you to an extra attack with up to 2 weapons, like various Tiger Claw maneuvers and Ranger spells work.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

That one I agree on. Limiting the spell to one extra main hand/primary attack and one extra off hand/secondary attack would be the most balanced and likely sensible approach.

 

[Crothian]

But then you can get the opposite problem: Abuse by Thri-Kreen and other many armed races and/or in tandem with the Girallon's Blessing spell.

Those examples (thri kreen and Girallon's Blessing) are problematic by themselves. I think a wiser choice would be to not use them in a game.

 

[Dandu]

Those examples (thri kreen and Girallon's Blessing) are problematic by themselves. I think a wiser choice would be to not use them in a game.

Is the Thri-Kreen balanced?

Pardon my asking, but what makes Girallon's Blessing problematic?

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Girallon's Blessing could be an issue when people rule that characters can take MWF and have it active during that time. Essentially the same problem as a Thri-keen.

Of course, these issues might pale in comparison to an optimized Marilith.

 

[Dandu]

Or a Druid, I suppose.

 

[Greenfield]

I'd read Haste as saying "One extra attack with any one weapon you hold."

But Haste has other benefits that Speed weapons don't grant. Bonuses to hit, to AC, to Initiative, to Reflex saves. So they aren't really equivalent.

Yeah, Speed won't stack with Haste, and if you could somehow place two Speed enhancements on a single weapon I wouldn't let them stack. But two separate Speed weapons, each granting you an extra attack with that one weapon? I don't see that as stacking because the effect is specific to the one weapon, not to you. You don't get to choose which weapon you get the extra attack with.

YMMV, of course, but that's how I'd handle it.