haste

[mikebr99]

Am I the only DM who constantly has players complaining:

"There's nothing my character can do."
"My character is always getting overshadowed."
"I want my character to be able to do something nobody else can do."

Are you only letting them play commoners?


Mike

 

[Delemental]

Yes, but chapechange puts the ability to cast a second spell in a round at it's proper level, nearing epic.

Which begs an interesting question: assuming that the current 3.5 version of Haste is appropriately balanced for a 3rd level spell, what spell level do you think would be appropriate for a spell that replicated the 3.0 version and gave an extra partial action? Bear in mind that 3.0 Haste only affected one target, whereas 3.5 Haste is one per caster level.

It seems that azmodean would place it at 9th level. Agree? Disagree? Personally I'd put it around 7th.

 

[rvalle]

We knew it was a problem because it was something every mage HAD to have. I think we nerfed it down to an extra move action and some ac bonuses.


rv

 

[kenobi65]

Are you only letting them play commoners?

Heh...not in the least. And, these aren't exactly unimaginative players, either. But, they definitely aren't powergamers, either...and when the powergamers in our group get rolling, that's when they start to feel that way, I've noticed.

 

[mikebr99]

Heh...not in the least. And, these aren't exactly unimaginative players, either. But, they definitely aren't powergamers, either...and when the powergamers in our group get rolling, that's when they start to feel that way, I've noticed.

Ahh... well, TPK, and let the non-powergamers choose characters first!

As they should have been taking notes from the PGs next to them.


Mike

 

[Jdvn1]

Either way, it meant that the wizard and sorcerer were really stealing the show.

Am I the only DM who constantly has players complaining:

"There's nothing my character can do."
"My character is always getting overshadowed."
"I want my character to be able to do something nobody else can do."

Yeah, I tend to think that's the characters' faults.

"Well, you didn't prepare very well, did you? You can't expect Fireball to work every time."

 

[Nail]

It's really hard to believe there's anyone who thought 3.0e Haste was a good idea. Ugg.

They're dumb then. They should've cast mass haste which is 6th or timestop at 9th. Both of these are better than plain haste.

Who's dumb?

Although Mass Haste is also a good idea, it is more situation-dependent....that is, all your friends have to be in a nice neat group for it to get 'em all. And it's using a 6th level spell for a 3rd level effect..... For the wizard, at least, the 6th level slots (if you're high enough level to have 'em) are best saved for Greater Dispel Magic and the like.

As for casting Timestop instead of Haste....you didn't play much high level stuff, did you? You cast Haste first, then with your extra action you cast Time Stop! Twice as many actions! Double the fun!

A 3rd level fun that Epic PC cast first thing in a battle? Please.......

 

[Henry]

Our group really didn't have a problem with haste, because spell power ran out twice as fast. However, it just felt wrong to cast that spell at the beginning of EVERY SINGLE COMBAT, which is what we started doing once we got past 7th level or so. Hell, one sorcerer even burned his higher level slots for that haste if he ran out of 3rd level slots - and he never regretted it. Anything that can gear you up for combat that doesn't even waste an action to do it is worth doing all the time, from a power-gaming point of view.

Therefore, I didn't miss it when it was gone, because our combats returned to being combats instead of coin-flips.

 

[Philip]

My 3.5 14th lvl wizards *still* casts haste at the beginning of most combats, only this time it's a Quickened Haste and now the ones who benefit the most are the fighters and the rogues. Needless to say, they are very glad for the 3.5 change.

 

[Victim]

Jeez, you people have no clue. The first thing you do is cast QUICKENED Haste. Then you go and cast 2 regular high level spells. Who says Quicken was useless? Of course, in our game, pretty much everyone eventually shelled the cash for constant Haste items. When one fighter guy does a partial charge then a full attack, and the other can either charge or activate his boots of speed, the second guy is always one round too slow.

kenobi65, was the problem that wizards and sorcerers that haste offered a disproportionate benefit to spellcasters, or that the wizard and sorcerer were only casting the spell on themselves? If some people are hasted and some aren't, the haste-nots are at a huge disadvantage.

Quite frankly, I think the impact of real extra actions is big enough that either they should be available at fairly low cost after a certain point is reached, or not at all. While 3.0 haste was broken in effect, the spell was low enough level to make boots of speed and other forms cheap. Essentially all parties in a high level combat would be hasted, making the comparitive impact much less - the game tends toward heavier offence, and certain strategies based on movement become worthless. However, everyone is still taking the same of relative actions. If it's available as a high level effect, the bonus is very exclusive. The character with it will tend to dominate, as kenobi pointed out.