Hasted Zombies?

[Altalazar]

Zombies get either a standard or a move action per round. So no full attacks, even though they keep all natural attacks from the base creature.

Slow also reduces you to either a standard or a move action per round. So no full attacks.

Haste cancels a slow.

So now, I wonder, if you cast haste on a zombie, does that do essentially the same thing - instead of increasing the zombies speed, ac, and giving one extra attack, it just cancels the default 'slow-like' effect and allows the zombie to act like normal creatures - move, standard action, full round actions (full attack with all natural attacks of base creature)?

Seems to me a pretty reasonable way to do it. I tried to find an official answer, but could not.

 

[Darklone]

Even though it's a leftover from 3.0, I don't think it's too broken not to allow it.

 

[javcs]

With 3.0e haste, yeah you'd get more than one action, with 3.5e no.

They're not under any sort of effect, it's just an inherent part of what they are, so you're not dispelling or countering something that is effecting them, you're applying a (mostly useless since you only get the speed bonus and not the extra attack) effect upon them.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So now, I wonder, if you cast haste on a zombie, does that do essentially the same thing - instead of increasing the zombies speed, ac, and giving one extra attack, it just cancels the default 'slow-like' effect and allows the zombie to act like normal creatures - move, standard action, full round actions (full attack with all natural attacks of base creature)?

Strictly, since the Zombie description doesn't reference the Slow spell at all, the clause in Haste about interaction with Slow is irrelevant.

The zombies would get the normal speed and AC bonus, and get an extra attack on all those full attack actions that they never get to take

In practice, I'd probably allow the Haste to suppress Single Actions Only (Ex) for the duration if someone requested it.

-Hyp.

 

[Altalazar]

Strictly, since the Zombie description doesn't reference the Slow spell at all, the clause in Haste about interaction with Slow is irrelevant.

The zombies would get the normal speed and AC bonus, and get an extra attack on all those full attack actions that they never get to take

In practice, I'd probably allow the Haste to suppress Single Actions Only (Ex) for the duration if someone requested it.

-Hyp.

Yes, I realize that they are not actually "slowed" as per the spell, but I did note that the effect is basically the same and worked from that as an analogy. Strictly speaking, there shouldn't be any reason why a zombie can't be sped up magically in some fashion to at least act as fast as a normal, non-hasted creature. While one could perhaps make that a unique spell, it seems rather silly when there is already a spell that could handle it.

Zombies would still lumber along most of the time, but at least for a short duration, they could move as normal while hasted.

I sent a question on this to Wizards, but don't know how long it might take for the official response (and so I came here to see what the general consensus would be).

 

[frankthedm]

In practice, I'd probably allow the Haste to suppress Single Actions Only (Ex) for the duration if someone requested it.
-Hyp.

Eh, I'd allow it provided the zombie tore itself apart while benefiting from the Haste to the amount of 1d6 damage per round. {I'm a big fan of haste having some sort of drawback.]

 

[Altalazar]

Eh, I'd allow it provided the zombie tore itself apart while benefiting from the Haste to the amount of 1d6 per round. {I'm a big fan of haste having some sort of drawback.]

Hmm, well, there would be two logic problems with that. First, from a materials science perspective, since the hasted zombie is not, in fact, moving all that fast, there's no reason it should be particularly stressful on the flesh, and the other problem is that even if it were to be damaged, that is not SLASHING damage, and so the DR 5 of the zombie would eliminate all of it unless you rolled a '6'.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yes, I realize that they are not actually "slowed" as per the spell, but I did note that the effect is basically the same and worked from that as an analogy.

Well, by the same logic, casting Haste on someone in the surprise round would 'counter' the restriction to a single standard or move action, because the restriction is basically the same as the Slow spell.

... and the other problem is that even if it were to be damaged, that is not SLASHING damage, and so the DR 5 of the zombie would eliminate all of it unless you rolled a '6'.

DR affects the damage of weapons and natural attacks.

"The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities."

If Frank introduced his d6-per-round as an effect of the Haste spell, it would be 'damage from spells', which the creature takes normal damage from.

-Hyp.

 

[bestone]

Im not a fan of how the zombies are at all, after reading the book of horrors i decided to give them my own little upgrade for my campaign

I now have them as slow moving (15' no run), but near indestructable grappling monsters, thier bite spreading zombie-ism (yes, reminds you of those gold old horror movies eh)

This makes them deadly to allow into close combat, meaning you'll wanna try to take them at range, or avoid them all togeather, or have a paladin immune to thier disease

they definetly are a little more terrifying, and a haste increasing thier movement, oh my

Of course, you cant have low level necromancers raising these things instead of skeletons, so i just called the regular zombies animated corpses and replaced it with that



hrmm, this reply is kinda pointless

 

[Altalazar]

Well, by the same logic, casting Haste on someone in the surprise round would 'counter' the restriction to a single standard or move action, because the restriction is basically the same as the Slow spell.



DR affects the damage of weapons and natural attacks.

"The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities."

If Frank introduced his d6-per-round as an effect of the Haste spell, it would be 'damage from spells', which the creature takes normal damage from.

-Hyp.

Well, the suprise round situation is not really a good analogy - the surprise round is not a partial round because you are slow and it does not persist for every single round.

And not all damage from spells is spell damage. But that wasn't the point I was trying to make, I was trying to point out why the damage in the case of a hasted zombie just doesn't make sense, because the hasted zombie is really not moving at 'haste' speed, it is moving at 'human normal' speed, and on top of that, zombie flesh IS resistant to non-slashing type damage. (But then this gets to a whole philosophical discussion on why someone feels the need to nerf a spell that has already been nerfed, and is also rather pointless, since the Haste spell, officially, does NOT cause damage in ANY cases to the hasted person, making moot any arguing about whether or not this non-existent damage should apply to a hasted zombie).