Hasted Zombies?

[Altalazar]

Im not a fan of how the zombies are at all, after reading the book of horrors i decided to give them my own little upgrade for my campaign

I now have them as slow moving (15' no run), but near indestructable grappling monsters, thier bite spreading zombie-ism (yes, reminds you of those gold old horror movies eh)

This makes them deadly to allow into close combat, meaning you'll wanna try to take them at range, or avoid them all togeather, or have a paladin immune to thier disease

they definetly are a little more terrifying, and a haste increasing thier movement, oh my

Of course, you cant have low level necromancers raising these things instead of skeletons, so i just called the regular zombies animated corpses and replaced it with that



hrmm, this reply is kinda pointless

Pointless can still be interesting... or at least intellectually stimulating. Yes, that does make for a more impressive zombie. You could just call them 'advanced zombies' and since they create spawn, it really doesn't matter if necros can make them or not, because as soon as they 'rebuke/control' one, they can get it to make them more...

 

[bestone]

I dont see why you wouldnt be able to do something else while hasted in a suprise round?

really you dont get all that big a benefit, even 2 move actions in a suprise round while hasted would be alright imho

 

[Hypersmurf]

(But then this gets to a whole philosophical discussion on why someone feels the need to nerf a spell that has already been nerfed, and is also rather pointless, since the Haste spell, officially, does NOT cause damage in ANY cases to the hasted person, making moot any arguing about whether or not this non-existent damage should apply to a hasted zombie).

Well, the Haste spell, officially, does NOT counter or dispel Single Actions Only (Ex), so doesn't that make moot any arguing about whether or not this non-existent effect of the spell should apply to a zombie as well?

-Hyp.

 

[Starglim]

By the rules, none of the effects of haste will help a zombie with its actions. I don't think it's unreasonable as a house rule that a 3rd level spell could have that effect, if cast specifically for that purpose.

 

[Altalazar]

Well, the Haste spell, officially, does NOT counter or dispel Single Actions Only (Ex), so doesn't that make moot any arguing about whether or not this non-existent effect of the spell should apply to a zombie as well?

-Hyp.

The question is not whether haste counters "single actions only" but what effects a haste has on a zombie (which is a subset of the reason why "single actions only" might apply).

And again, it is moot to argue about whether Zombies should take damage when hasted because the only reason they would according to the original line of discussion about it was because he'd have the spell ALWAYS do damage. We might as well argue that haste should require you to make a will save or die every round you are hasted, and then say, see, that means the zombie must make that same save - it adds nothing to the discussion because it is a different question entirely.

 

[Altalazar]

By the rules, none of the effects of haste will help a zombie with its actions. I don't think it's unreasonable as a house rule that a 3rd level spell could have that effect, if cast specifically for that purpose.

I think the rules appear that they might be that way only because haste was nerfed to deal specifically with an issue for what happens in its normal effect. (In other words, haste was not nerfed to deal with any 'hasted zombie' issues, and perhaps was not even considered in that context).

 

[Hypersmurf]

The question is not whether haste counters "single actions only" but what effects a haste has on a zombie (which is a subset of the reason why "single actions only" might apply).

Well, the effects it has are to grant the zombie an extra attack on a full attack action, a +1 bonus to attack rolls, a + 1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves, and a 30 foot enhancement bonus to speed (to a limit of twice the normal speed). Alternatively, it will dispel a Slow spell affecting the zombie.

Note that even 3E Haste would not allow a Hasted Zombie to take a full attack action. A Colossal Zombie had 48 HD, and a BAB of +24; in theory, give him a club, and he'd have a full attack of +25/+20/+15/+10/+5 (judging by the 3E Solar's 5 iterative attacks)... but even Hasted, he can't take a full round action, only a partial action (one attack at +25) and another partial action (one attack at +25). And he can't use the two partial actions to Start and Complete a full attack action, because the Start/Complete Full Round Action actions only apply to miscellaneous full round actions, of which Full Attack is not one.

-Hyp.

 

[Particle_Man]

I now have them as slow moving (15' no run), but near indestructable grappling monsters, thier bite spreading zombie-ism (yes, reminds you of those gold old horror movies eh)

they definetly are a little more terrifying

Yes, that does make for a more impressive zombie. You could just call them 'advanced zombies' and since they create spawn

Sounds like it is taking up the niche currently occupied by the Wight, though.

 

[bestone]

Sounds like it is taking up the niche currently occupied by the Wight, though.

But wights are doubly as fast, drain levels, and only raise spawn on a slain enemy, its just personal prefference, but i like the slow moving innevitable death of the zombies you see in cheap horror flicks

infact here are the basics, if anyone has any suggestions/additions, mayhaps help (im kinda new to third, so please dont flame me)

I have them as slow 15' moving zombies, still get 1 action, move or attack, +8 to grapple (improved grapple and unholy strength) dr 10/-, and regular hp (tho sundering the head causes normal damage) upon a successfull grapple, you make another grapple check, if thats successfull they bite dealing 1d4+4 damage, fort dc 18, save or turn into a zombie 2d4 minutes later

cr 3

 

[Altalazar]

Well, the effects it has are to grant the zombie an extra attack on a full attack action, a +1 bonus to attack rolls, a + 1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves, and a 30 foot enhancement bonus to speed (to a limit of twice the normal speed). Alternatively, it will dispel a Slow spell affecting the zombie.

Note that even 3E Haste would not allow a Hasted Zombie to take a full attack action. A Colossal Zombie had 48 HD, and a BAB of +24; in theory, give him a club, and he'd have a full attack of +25/+20/+15/+10/+5 (judging by the 3E Solar's 5 iterative attacks)... but even Hasted, he can't take a full round action, only a partial action (one attack at +25) and another partial action (one attack at +25). And he can't use the two partial actions to Start and Complete a full attack action, because the Start/Complete Full Round Action actions only apply to miscellaneous full round actions, of which Full Attack is not one.

-Hyp.

With 3E Haste, there would be no question that a zombie could act normally. It added an extra action, and once you have the chance to do two standard actions in a round, you are up to what you normally have - in fact, it is even better. Normally, you can only get two actions in a round and one HAS to be movement. Under your 3E theory, you'd get BETTER than that - two actions and NEITHER has to be movement (though obviously they could be). So you could do a full round action in those circumstances.

Your interpretation of 3.5E Haste is one possible interpretation, but without an official answer, your answer is not any more official than mine. Once I get the official answer I'll post it to this thread and we can then compare to what the Sage thinks. The reason I think your answer doesn't work as well is because it doesn't take into account the circumstances, but instead just blindly tries to apply the base mechanic to circumstances that don't support it, something that generally speaking is not how the rules are usually interpreted by the sage. But thanks for the input.