Hasted Zombies?

[Altalazar]

There's already an official rules answer for Haste...

Haste
Transmutation
Level: Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: One creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

The transmuted creatures move and act more quickly than normal. This extra speed has several effects.

When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding. The attack is made using the creature’s full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This effect is not cumulative with similar effects, such as that provided by a weapon of speed, nor does it actually grant an extra action, so you can’t use it to cast a second spell or otherwise take an extra action in the round.)

A hasted creature gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves. Any condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses.

All of the hasted creature’s modes of movement (including land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim) increase by 30 feet, to a maximum of twice the subject’s normal speed using that form of movement. This increase counts as an enhancement bonus, and it affects the creature’s jumping distance as normal for increased speed.

Multiple haste effects don’t stack. Haste dispels and counters slow.

Material Component: A shaving of licorice root.​

-Hyp.

Cute. But there's no mention in there of what happens when it is cast on a zombie. As I said before, we'll get the official answer and I'll post it here, though obviously, no DM need await that to do what he or she wants.

 

[Deset Gled]

Cute. But there's no mention in there of what happens when it is cast on a zombie. As I said before, we'll get the official answer and I'll post it here, though obviously, no DM need await that to do what he or she wants.

There's no mention in there of what happens when it's cast on an elf, either. Does that mean that all elves who are hasted will turn into monkeys?

The spell says what the spell does. The fact that it doesn't mention zombies specifically means that zombies are affected exactly the same as everyone else.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But there's no mention in there of what happens when it is cast on a zombie.

• When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding.
• A hasted creature gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves.
• All of the hasted creature’s modes of movement (including land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim) increase by 30 feet, to a maximum of twice the subject’s normal speed using that form of movement.

Unless you've got something to suggest a zombie isn't a creature, it mentions quite unambiguously in there what happens when it is cast on a zombie.

-Hyp.

 

[RigaMortus2]

What I wanna know is, what happens when you cast Slow on a Zombie?

 

[Hypersmurf]

What I wanna know is, what happens when you cast Slow on a Zombie?

Remember, a Zombie can only take a standard or move action. A creature in the surprise round can only take a standard or move action. What can a Zombie do in the surprise round? It can take a standard or move action.

So similarly, when you cast Slow on a Zombie:
A slowed creature can take only a single move action or standard action each turn, but not both (nor may it take full-round actions). Additionally, it takes a –1 penalty on attack rolls, AC, and Reflex saves. A slowed creature moves at half its normal speed (round down to the next 5-foot increment), which affects the creature’s jumping distance as normal for decreased speed.

The Slowed Zombie can only take a standard or move action... and this is true for two reasons.

It also takes the penalty on attacks, AC, Reflex saves and movement rate.

-Hyp.

 

[Mark Chance]

If the goal is faster zombies, drop both the Single Actions Only "ability" and the Toughness feat. That seems to strike a reasonable balance, so no need to adjust CRs.



But, to address the thread's OP, I'd allow haste to cancel Single Actions Only for the duration of the spell. It doesn't allow haste to do anything more than it normally does.

 

[javcs]

If the goal is faster zombies, drop both the Single Actions Only "ability" and the Toughness feat. That seems to strike a reasonable balance, so no need to adjust CRs.



But, to address the thread's OP, I'd allow haste to cancel Single Actions Only for the duration of the spell. It doesn't allow haste to do anything more than it normally does.

Huh? What version of haste are you looking at? In 3.5 haste doesn't grant an extra partial action, only move, AC, Reflex saves, and attack bonuses, plus an extra attack when making a full attack only.

 

[Altalazar]

• When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding.
• A hasted creature gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves.
• All of the hasted creature’s modes of movement (including land movement, burrow, climb, fly, and swim) increase by 30 feet, to a maximum of twice the subject’s normal speed using that form of movement.

Unless you've got something to suggest a zombie isn't a creature, it mentions quite unambiguously in there what happens when it is cast on a zombie.

-Hyp.

No, it doesn't. Let me illustrate. Here's another question for you - how much damage does a creature take from a fireball when that creature is encased in ice two inches thick?

Here's a hint - the answer isn't 1d6 pts per level. And if you understand why not, despite the description of the spell, then you understand my point about zombies.

Have a great night!

 

[javcs]

No, it doesn't. Let me illustrate. Here's another question for you - how much damage does a creature take from a fireball when that creature is encased in ice two inches thick?

Here's a hint - the answer isn't 1d6 pts per level. And if you understand why not, despite the description of the spell, then you understand my point about zombies.

Have a great night!

What's unambiguous about the text? What does it not say that you feel needs to be said?

As to your question, that depends on whether the fireball burns through the ice or not, and whether the creature makes it's reflex save or not and whether or not it has evasion or improved evasion (it is entirely possible that the adjudicating DM would rule that evasion, and thus improved evasion, would not work in such a situation, it is also possible that there would be large circumstance penalties applied to any reflex save made). It also depends on whether the creature has fire resistance or immunity, and whether or not there is some effect similar to blink on the creature (ie an effect causing some sort of miss chance due to being on a different plane of existence. And although that probably isn't what you wanted, like it or not, that is the rules as they are written.

You are illustrating nothing. An instantaneous evocation spell is quite different from a noninstantaneous transmutation spell.

A DM would be well within his rights and the realm of reason (looking back at the 3.0e version of haste) to houserule that a haste spell would negate the Single Actions Only for the extent of the duration, if I were to houserule in such a manner, I would also deny the miscellaneous bonuses from haste.
However, there is nothing in the 3.5e rules to support such a ruling and a host of items that go against such a ruling.


I do not see how you are pulling some sort of solidly rules-based support for your position. Could you please give us at least some of your reasoning from the rules so that your arguments can be better understood?

 

[Hypersmurf]

No, it doesn't. Let me illustrate. Here's another question for you - how much damage does a creature take from a fireball when that creature is encased in ice two inches thick?

Completely encased? He has total cover... assuming the fireball doesn't destroy the obstacle, he takes no damage.

"If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does."

If the fireball does destroy the obstacle, it's 1d6/level.

-Hyp.