Hated Heroes?

[Reynard]

Charisma isn't looks or amiability. it isn't social graces. Charisma is force of personality. otherwise, Intimidate would be a Strength based skill. Now, how you play that strength (or weakness) is up to the individual, but suggesting that ugly or crude characters automatically have low Charisma scores is just silly. I agree with the depiction of a socially awkward, shy person as having low Charisma, simply because their personality doesn't shine through (for good or bad).

If the heroes all have low charisma scores, the world won't take them very seriously. they might not even believe they have done the things they claim to have done. After all, they are all meek, socially inept nobodies standing up there. If one member of the party has a high Charisma, then that persojn is likely going to be the face of the group and spokesperson, whether he wants to or not. If a number or all of the PCs have high chraisma scores, the world is going to take notice and their names are going to be known. But what they are known for, how they are viewed, is dependent upon their actions, not their scores.

 

[diaglo]

Charisma isn't looks or amiability. it isn't social graces.

maybe it isn't in your version of the game.

but in the PHB. it is these things too. plus:

Charisma is force of personality.

 

[Knight Otu]

Outside of actively trying to influence people, a low Charisma doesn't cause automatic hate. A DM could of course decide that the low-Cha character is hated, but usually, the initial attitude depends on the circumstances, and by the rules, tends to be Indifferent.
And even when failing with influencing the attitude, it is more of a distaste, "Why do you keep annoying me" unless the character truly fails.
My interpretation of low charisma is, essentially, the lack of ability to shape the world to your liking. Charisma affects the impact you have on the world (Wisdom, on the other hand, affects the impact the world has on you).

 

[hexgrid]

maybe it isn't in your version of the game.

but in the PHB. it is these things too. plus: (Force of personality.)

As far as I'm concerned, the RAW charisma description is flat out wrong. The idea that charisma can be anything can be anything besides force of personality can't be reconciled with the rest of the rules.

Should a sorcerer's spellcasting ability diminish if he never bathes? Is there anything unlikable or unattractive about a CHA 6 puppy?

 

[Illirion]

In my book, I would have never let a low cha be the cause of hatred (maybe extreme irritation, but not hatred) toward party members. After all, characters with an extremely high charisma can still be hated when they're openly evil.

Sauron for instance, should have had an enormous charisma. People are scared out of their minds when they even think of such an evil villain. Gollum is at least as evil as sauron, but the difference in the treatment he gets from people is purely a cha related matter. People look down on gollum and mostly just pity him, while everyone dreads the thought of even comming face to face with the high cha bbeg.

Therefore in party-treatment terms this would mean that after an encounter with a red dragon, which was mostly defeated due to the impact of the barbarians' (low cha) great axe, the townspeople will most likely carry the bard/sorcerer/cleric (high cha) on their shoulders. The barbarian (who will have done most of the work) gets to be largely ignored or even a source of irritation if he claims to have been the hero in this adventure. The people will also remember the event as "the day that adventuring bard and his party slew the evil dragon for us".

 

[diaglo]

As far as I'm concerned, the RAW charisma description is flat out wrong. The idea that charisma can be anything can be anything besides force of personality can't be reconciled with the rest of the rules.

that is beside the point. maybe you should post this in house rules

Should a sorcerer's spellcasting ability diminish if he never bathes? Is there anything unlikable or unattractive about a CHA 6 puppy?

anyone still have that avatar of DMCal's? there are ugly dogs.

 

[Jdvn1]

anyone still have that avatar of DMCal's? there are ugly dogs.

That dog never needs to be mentioned again.

 

[gizmo33]

The guy who all of the other protagonists don't get along with, but who is ultimately a good guy deep down and manages to redeem himself often enough that he isn't hated.

I see those guys as being hated because of their alignment (Chaotic), not their lack of charisma. In fact, I think both Snake and Mad Mardigan are main heroes in their story because they are charismatic, at least to the viewers.

It seems like a contradiction though, to say that low-charisma characters should engender some sort of powerful emotions of dislike. Perhaps that's just a way that the DM thinks he can create negative consequences for PCs that have low Charisma scores. I would rather err on the side of have NPCs ignore/undervalue such characters. That's not the RAW though.

 

[painandgreed]

It depends a great deal on what the character does. The low Cha character can always just decide to shut up, sit in the back, and let the face man talk for the party. Then they are "that guy" in the back that nobody knows and those who meet just sort of decide never to talk to them again. Then there are the ones who like to make it evident that they have a low charisma. They get into trouble, insist on talking (or insulting) people, and can get the party kicked out of an otherwise friendly spot. That's the thing with adventuring parties, they assume the Cha of whoever does the most talking for the group.

One example of a low Cha hero I can remember happened after the adventuring group met a noble on the road and was camping with him. He told his life story and his bard sang his praises and then he asked for the party to tell theirs. The DM was offering RP XP for telling a good story and impressing the noble and each character's story got greater and greater and they embelished their accomplishments and praised themselves as was socially expected. Everybody was havign a great time in and out of character as the stories got bigger and more flowery. Finally, everybody except for the low Cha thief (1E) had told their story and the noble asked the theif "What do you do?" which was an interesing case since you you had to disguise what you did because it was socially unacceptable to say you were a thief. He just looked up and said "I kill evil priests." and went back to cooking his dinner on the fire. The backstory was that his family had been killed by an evil preist and he would go to any lengths to get a backstab on one. This was a pretty ballsy thing to say because in the campaign, getting reputation for hunting down evil priests was a sure way for them to come looking for you. It pretty much killed the evening and everybody went to bed and the noble got up the next night and left with a brief goodbye and probably never mentioned us to anybody ever again (unless he informed an evil priest about us).

 

[billd91]

It's possible to have a lot of charisma and still be hated. This is quite typical of modern politicians. It might mean that the high charisma character can really work the room, get people going along with him while he is exerting his charisma, but still have more remote detractors or, because of his controversial nature, have that charisma effect be fleeting.