Hated Heroes?
- Thread starter Yair
- Start date
Calico_Jack73
First Post
I am responding to the initial post.
I think you are confusing reputation with charisma. Reputation would reflect that the populous has heard of the great deeds of the group and so when the party goes into town to pick up some items they are well received, receive awards from the town elders, and a festival is thrown in their name. However, the low charisma fighter has a bad habit of being brutally honest to the point of inadvertently hurting people's feelings. He goes to the armorsmith to pick up a new breastplate. At first the armorsmith is more than happy to sell the fighter the armor but after the fighter makes a few off hand comments about what he feels is the poor condition of the store, the appearance of the smithy's wife, and how the whole store smells like cow manure the smithy may or may not deal with the fighter and if he does he may crank up the price.
There is an example of the difference between Charisma and Reputation.
I think you are confusing reputation with charisma. Reputation would reflect that the populous has heard of the great deeds of the group and so when the party goes into town to pick up some items they are well received, receive awards from the town elders, and a festival is thrown in their name. However, the low charisma fighter has a bad habit of being brutally honest to the point of inadvertently hurting people's feelings. He goes to the armorsmith to pick up a new breastplate. At first the armorsmith is more than happy to sell the fighter the armor but after the fighter makes a few off hand comments about what he feels is the poor condition of the store, the appearance of the smithy's wife, and how the whole store smells like cow manure the smithy may or may not deal with the fighter and if he does he may crank up the price.
There is an example of the difference between Charisma and Reputation.
I can see a group of heroes with very high charisma that are hated by the public. Or a group of heroes with very low charisma who are loved by the public. It all depends on how the characters are played. If you wanted to be loved, you would play your character differently with a low CHA than you would with a high CHA. High CHA: You could give great speeches that make everyone like you. Low CHA: You could stay out of the spotlight as much as possible knowing that you would fumble any words you tried to say. You would rise to fame much slower in the second example, but your deeds could speak for themselves.
If you wanted to be disliked, you could have low CHA and take any opportunity to speak publicly and let your natural talents perform for themselves... or you could have high charisma and still have an elitist attitude that you wouldn't care to hide from the public. People generally like or dislike someone regarding their values, attitudes, etc. Charisma affects how quickly you can get people to form their opinions one way or another and you can even deceive people into thinking they like you for a time. With a low charisma, you don't have much say in how people will react to you, but I have met people who are great people who I like a lot and who cannot string more than two words together before they put their foot into their mouth... then they try to take it out and put the other one in. It isn't hard to look past their words into the meaning they are trying to get across though... you just have to make an effort. People with a low charisma aren't destined to forever live a life with everyone hating them. Why are the people in the party still hanging around with them?
If you wanted to be disliked, you could have low CHA and take any opportunity to speak publicly and let your natural talents perform for themselves... or you could have high charisma and still have an elitist attitude that you wouldn't care to hide from the public. People generally like or dislike someone regarding their values, attitudes, etc. Charisma affects how quickly you can get people to form their opinions one way or another and you can even deceive people into thinking they like you for a time. With a low charisma, you don't have much say in how people will react to you, but I have met people who are great people who I like a lot and who cannot string more than two words together before they put their foot into their mouth... then they try to take it out and put the other one in. It isn't hard to look past their words into the meaning they are trying to get across though... you just have to make an effort. People with a low charisma aren't destined to forever live a life with everyone hating them. Why are the people in the party still hanging around with them?
Calico_Jack73
First Post
Lamoni said:
Once again, that is a comparison of Reputation to Charisma. IMHO Charisma is very personal. A bard can tell the stories of how great a hero is and prior to meeting the guy the audience has a built up image of how great the guy must be but when he shows up his lack of Charisma could destroy their image.
High charisma villans could be hated due to the reputation of their deeds. However, when they roll into town and start ranting the townsfolk just seem to find themselves understanding where the villains are coming from and start to embrace their beliefs. I am going to perform a discusion board faux pas but Hitler is the perfect example of a high charisma villain who convinced a nation to abandon their morals and to embrace his own twisted beliefs.
Ranger REG
Explorer
Like Jayne Cobb, folk hero of Canton.Yair said:
Solarious
Explorer
Like someone who manages to say the wrong things at the worst possible time, but has no idea what their words does others.
The overly blunt person who can't tell when their words are either inappropiate or stings.
The standoffish person who sees little point in talking, and keeps their sentences short and straight to the point. Has an expanded vocabulary in order to communicate concepts with as few words as possible. High Wis/Int kinda person.
Hmmnn... I like this topic. Better make one on the other boards...
*shuffles off*
The overly blunt person who can't tell when their words are either inappropiate or stings.
The standoffish person who sees little point in talking, and keeps their sentences short and straight to the point. Has an expanded vocabulary in order to communicate concepts with as few words as possible. High Wis/Int kinda person.
Hmmnn... I like this topic. Better make one on the other boards...
*shuffles off*
Imperialus
Explorer
The best example of a low Charisma character that I know of comes from Piratecat's story hour... the name escapes me though... Proggle? Puiggle? Something like that... I think he was a short elf or somthing 
I was playing a Ftr/Th named Johnny Bones. High Str, Dex, Con, and better than average Wis & Int; Low Cha (6). Neutral Evil. A thug, if you will.
He did a lot for the party, but wasn't popular. He was selfish & self-centered. He was bitter. He was a bit of a whiner. He was a bully (even to party members) and a user. In short, he grated on everyone.
But since he could damn well kill stuff and find things, he was "useful," so they kept him around.
If the campaign had continued, there was a good chance either he or the mage (his most common victim) would have wound up dead at the others' hands.
If not, he still would have been the one in the group that made everyone else's skin crawl. To continue the rock star analogy, he was the lead guitarist with the much publicized drug habit, 4 kids (all about the same age) by 3 women (none of them his wife), rumors of unsavory connections, and a host of warrants out for him in various countries (thus limiting touring opportunities).
He did a lot for the party, but wasn't popular. He was selfish & self-centered. He was bitter. He was a bit of a whiner. He was a bully (even to party members) and a user. In short, he grated on everyone.
But since he could damn well kill stuff and find things, he was "useful," so they kept him around.
If the campaign had continued, there was a good chance either he or the mage (his most common victim) would have wound up dead at the others' hands.
If not, he still would have been the one in the group that made everyone else's skin crawl. To continue the rock star analogy, he was the lead guitarist with the much publicized drug habit, 4 kids (all about the same age) by 3 women (none of them his wife), rumors of unsavory connections, and a host of warrants out for him in various countries (thus limiting touring opportunities).
Yair
Community Supporter
Great responses. 
I do agree I confused Reputation with Charisma. Curious that no rules for reputation are in the Core; I suppose I consider it for that in NPC reactions, but still.
After reading all the posts, I think I'll be more strict with my players regarding roleplaying their abysmal charisma scores. I can see how NPCs would come to personally hate them, even while their reputation and deed are for good, if the Cha is properly roleplayed.
Yair
I do agree I confused Reputation with Charisma. Curious that no rules for reputation are in the Core; I suppose I consider it for that in NPC reactions, but still.
After reading all the posts, I think I'll be more strict with my players regarding roleplaying their abysmal charisma scores. I can see how NPCs would come to personally hate them, even while their reputation and deed are for good, if the Cha is properly roleplayed.
Yair
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