Hatin' the RPGA? (Forked Thread: The real flaw of 3E/3.5E/OGL)

[MichaelSomething]

Forked from: The real flaw of 3E/3.5E/OGL

Variability of gameplay is a massive bonus and feature. Knowing that I can take the same game and play it in a different way every time I play it is an awesome, awesome thing.

RPGA and organized tournament play is one of the worst things to happen to the hobby.

Is it me or do some people have a strong dislike for the RPGA and organized play in general? Why all the hate? Care to explain?

 

[darjr]

I dunno. I don't think I could run a RPGA adventure exactly the same even if I really wanted to.

 

[amysrevenge]

I think a big part of it is the "racial memory" of competitive play from the 1980s that Gary loved so much. You say RPGA to anyone who has either been around the block for a while or read a few old Dragon mags, but hasn't actually been involved with the RPGA for at least a decade, and all they hear is "teams of players competing with each other to see who can defeat the dungeon in the finest fashion".

Frankly, I'd hate that style of play as much as any of them.

The term "tournament" has no place in the RPGA of the 21st century*. Nobody wins anything, there aren't prizes (other than standard convention swag where applicable), and nobody is in competition. It's just an organized way to play D&D without needing a Dungeon Master to slave over a hot Monster Manual for hours, and to be able to play with more than just your favourite 6 buddies in someone's basement. It's like exclusively playing published adventures, only they are all free (without having to pirate them).

Sure, you have douchebags aplenty at the public events. I think that many of the biggest jerks in the gaming community can be kind of forced into these types of games when nobody will let them into their homes anymore. However, in my fairly vast organized play experience, the awesome friends outnumber the clueless jerks so enormously that it's not even a factor.


*Apparently there is still a thing called the D&D Open at GenCon, with prizes and winners and such. I've never had anything to do with it, and I don't know if the RPGA runs it or not. If it does, it is such a tiny, miniscule fraction of what the RPGA does that it isn't even worth mentioning.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

It´s an expression of "[things i do not participate in / do no longer like] are ruining the hobby!" You´ll find that a lot -

Portion of post removed by Admin. Please don't try to start arguments, and make your point without insulting people. ~ Piratecat

 

[FireLance]

From the context of the thread that it was forked from, there seems to be an underlying assumption that too much variability is bad for RPGA games, so WotC has the incentive to reduce variability in D&D to cater to the RPGA. However, since variability is good for a home game, this means that the RPGA has a negative effect on the quality of home games.

 

[FireLance]

It´s an expression of "[things i do not participate in / do no longer like] are ruining the hobby!" You´ll find that a lot - another example is old-school sandbox DMs bemoaning story-heavy play a la Dragonlance as "ruining D&D." Saying "i don´t like it" doesn´t sound shrill enough so you say "you destroy what i love" and Bobs your uncle.

Mind you, it is quite likely that different playstyles are competitive. Hence, if you enjoy a more traditional playstyle and the rest of your group finds a newer playstyle to be more to their taste, you might end up with nobody to game with. It's kind of like the war for talent: you've got to keep reminding people why they should prefer your playstyle.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

It´s an expression of "[things i do not participate in / do no longer like] are ruining the hobby!" You´ll find that a lot - another example is old-school sandbox DMs bemoaning story-heavy play a la Dragonlance as "ruining D&D." Saying "i don´t like it" doesn´t sound shrill enough so you say "you destroy what i love" and Bobs your uncle.

Man, you should get a job as a therapist, because you TOTALLY have me pegged*

*No you don't. I DO like how you painted people with a broad brush, and by "broad brush" I mean "blatently insulted them in a rather HILARIOUSLY ironic fashion, considering what your attempted message was."

I hate RPGA because of a delicious stew of what Firelance and Amy said. I love variability in games. Organized play rubs me all kinds of wrong ways, draw from that what you will, and I can't help but feel that most of what I dislike about 4e, and everything on 3e that I did like, was sacrificed on the alter of it. Furthermore, RPGA was born in the horrible bloated corpse of tournament play from the younger years, and hahaha we don't need to go into how horrible that was.

 

[Kzach]

I don't hate organised play, but I hate the RPGA.

With the RPGA, it really should be called 'disorganised play'.

 

[frankthedm]

I have misguided hate of the RPGA.

 

[dm4hire]

RPGA and home games are nothing a like I can tell you that. The overall benefit is being able to play wherever you go in the world as long as there are other members of the RPGA in that location.

A lot of the hate for RPGA comes from the old days when, as mentioned, there was a more competitive feel to the organization. That was mainly the result of the certificate system that was being used. There would be a number of items for each module you could attain as a group and everyone got at least one item. You couldn’t play the adventures more than once back then which was the biggest reason for the competitive nature. For example if there was a +3 Flaming Tongue Sword in the module and you had two fighters at the table who both wanted it a problem was sure to arise, regardless of how it ended someone was going to be upset. Then add in the trading aspect that was allowed and you had people deliberately taking good items they didn’t need so they could trade them later for something else. I played in several games where a player came straight out and admitted that was the reason they were bidding on an item, knowing others at the table had a valid need for it.

Another downside to RPGA is that you can get stuck with rules lawyers from hell who for very good reason can’t find a gaming group. I remember playing one year at GenCon and having a player argue with the DM, who happened to be one of the contributors to 3rd ed. (Unfortunately I don’t recall which writer, I want to say Monte Cook or Sean Reynolds but that was eight or nine years ago. My memory is horrible.). So you can imagine what it’s like for someone not as versed as someone who didn’t work on the rules first hand. Nothing shuts down a game quicker than people arguing over a game or having to wait for a senior judge to make a ruling because someone decided to argue with the judge or another player.

The RPGA can be very cliquish. During the competitive years and even still today players got use to playing with certain people either forming teams our they were members of a local game club that did RPGA events. Going to a convention for the first time can be a real eye opener when you’re trying to find a table to join and everyone of them is filled with people who don’t want you because they already have a full table and don’t want to split their group because they have developed tactics as a team; even if they two fighters and need a cleric. Granted that’s an extreme but trying to fit in can be a little a nerving to some people and could be easily seen as being excluded because of it.

The RPGA has also had a heavy influence on the game as mentioned, especially concerning products and input. RPGA members are the largest fan base that WotC interacts with at major conventions. Sometimes I think WotC forgets that RPGA members don’t represent every player in the world when it comes to asking them for input before they make decisions. Though WotC has since turned away from that mentality over the last couple of years, the current party size focus of four players serves as an example when compared to six player focus in previous editions. I don’t fault WotC having done that in the past since the RPGA does represent a fair portion of their consumer base and serves as an excellent marketing tool.

The RPGA had to streamline a lot of the rules so that the game is balanced for everyone in the past and even today they do it to some extent, but not as much as before. People couldn’t play a lot of the classes or races they wanted to in the past. WotC has made and effort to change that in the new Living Campaigns starting with Living Forgotten Realms. Most every class and race is playable and exceptions can be gained via game play and acquiring Player Advantage cards which give access to restricted feats or races.

Time constraints tend to be a problem when dealing with the RPGA. Most of the modules are designed to be played in four or six hours which limits role-playing at times depending on the amount of combat and the group you’re playing with. This becomes a real problem at conventions where multiple games are scheduled in time blocks. In recent years the time allotment has tended to be stretched to six hour increments to allow more playing time, but in the past the four hour block was a major hindrance. Still it is possible to run out of time and be forced to quit a session when you’d prefer to continue.

Judge shortage tends to be a big problem at RPGA events. If more players show up than judges they get turned away. Not getting to play a module you really wanted to play, especially when you set aside time to play it can be aggravating. This is part of the reason WotC has revamped the RPGA to allow playing multiple times for players in the hopes that more players will help judge. It works to some extent but finding judges can still be an issue.

The RPGA does have its advantages. You get to meet new people. Finding a game is not a real problem unless you live in the middle of Timbuktu and your closest neighbor is a potted plant in the next room. With the guidelines available you know exactly what to expect. The modules are free as mentioned so finding available adventures to play is not a problem. Now that home play is incorporated into the RPGA you can play a character in your home game and take it anywhere and continue playing that character as long as your DM runs sanctioned events.

Today’s RPGA is a lot different than it was 10 years ago, even five years ago. I’d recommend it to anyone trying to find a local game and coming up empty handed. Membership is free and a lot of good experiences are to be had. Try it!!

Also I should note that some of the bad experiences in the past are regional based and were not necessarily throughout the RPGA.