Have "cross-class" skill deliniations finally been removed?

Delericho, always remember to check when you say someone is wrong. ;)

Tracking is here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#track

To whit:
Normal
Without this feat, you can use the Survival skill to find tracks, but you can follow them only if the DC for the task is 10 or lower.


So, yes, anyone can track using Survival so long as the tracks are pretty easy to follow.

The cut-off is still fairly arbitrary, of course.
 

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Well my point with the violin is just that I don't think characters with 64 charisma exist, or at least they shouldn't be worried about when designing a skill system. I'm less worried about the extreme examples of what mundane skill can and can't be performed by an untrained god and more about what can be done in a situation more likely to come up in the game itself.

Your definitely correct about the profession skill being more arbitrary though....and particularly for the difference between profession and craft. I think the main reason for that is simply because they are so broad and not something they worry about PCs getting too much.....in fact they won't even exist in 4E if I remember correctly.
 


FadedC said:
Well my point with the violin is just that I don't think characters with 64 charisma exist, or at least they shouldn't be worried about when designing a skill system. I'm less worried about the extreme examples of what mundane skill can and can't be performed by an untrained god and more about what can be done in a situation more likely to come up in the game itself.

True. The funny thing is, though, that if they dropped the 'trained only' rule, they actually simplify the ruleset, and cut out a lot of corner cases. My strong feeling is that doing so would be a significant improvement.

in fact they won't even exist in 4E if I remember correctly.

I think you are right about that. I'm afraid I have to add that to my list of "mistakes WotC have made with 4e". The Craft and Profession skills were a really clean and simple way to handle the skills possessed by 'everyone else'. That the Crafting rules needed some work, and that PCs rarely bothered with these skills should not have detracted from the usefulness of this.
 

Heh, thanks, Delericho; every time a forum poster says 'I was wrong, sorry' an angel gets its wings! :)

Upon reflection, it strikes me that the difficulty modifier for 'next to impossible' (I think it's +10 DC, but perhaps should be higher) would be appropriate for 'attempting to use trained-only skills.'

That is, if you accept the premise of level 15+ being rather superheroic/near-divine heroes, then being able to fake Perform in any particular skill should be at least possible.

'I can fake it because I can infer from lots of other things' or 'I know about planes just from casual stuff I've overheard' and so on
 

delericho said:
I think you are right about that. I'm afraid I have to add that to my list of "mistakes WotC have made with 4e". The Craft and Profession skills were a really clean and simple way to handle the skills possessed by 'everyone else'. That the Crafting rules needed some work, and that PCs rarely bothered with these skills should not have detracted from the usefulness of this.

I think wizards theory right now is that they don't need to include skills that would be taken by NPC because most NPCs willl no longer be fleshed out in the detail characters were. So it's sufficient to say that Joe is a farmer, rather then that he has a farming skill of +8. It's not like there was a table of farming skill checks to make his +8 relevent in any case.

Similarly for characters who took craft/profession skills, it's not like anyone ever actually made anything, or like there will rules for what actual in game effects the profession skills had. People only took those skills to add flavor to your character, and that's something you should be able to do without it having a skill point cost.
 


Well, they made it clear that a Wizard can pick up Fighter stuff like weapons and armor. Warlords can pick up Wizard magic. So, I'll assume that there are class skills, but you can pretty easily pick up other skills, too. I wonder if you'll have spend a feat/talent to get just one added skill, or if you spend a feat/talent to get the gamut of a classes base skill set?
 

ehren37 said:
I seriously hope they are completely gone. Or each class has something like a list + 3 others. It sucks that some classes blow in social situations.

I don't mind cross class skills in theory but I would like something like the +3 others thing. You have your normal class skill list +3 additional skills are added to your skill list of your choice, hopefully corresponding with your background.
 

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