Have Githzerai always been jerks?

Xenonnonex

Adventurer
From Murdy Kurdy's Foam of Toes ->
"The Githzerai do not intentionally endanger the natural denizens of a plane but they never compromise a planned attack on the githyanki just to protect innocent bystanders. In battling githyanki the end justifies the means"


Also. Menyar-Ag is quite clearly the God-Emperor of 40k.

Watch the language, please.
 
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Parmandur

Legend
From Murdy Kurdy's Foam of Toes ->
"The Githzerai do not intentionally endanger the natural denizens of a plane but they never compromise a planned attack on the githyanki just to protect innocent bystanders. In battling githyanki the end justifies the means"


Also. Menyar-Ag is quite clearly the God-Emperor of 40k.
Yes, just less so than their psycho cousins.

Pretty sure he predates WH40K.
 
Yeah, I understand how you need to change the rules in a new edition, but what's up with the constant, unannounced changes to the fluff with each and every iteration of the rules?

Nothing about Githzerai behavior has changed from Fiend Folio to Planescape to Expanded Psionics Handbook to Player's Handbook 3 to... wherever they debuted in 5e. They were made LN because they're a monastic culture... but they didn't even manage to become LN until it was no longer a requirement for the Monk class.
 

S'mon

Legend
Yeah, I understand how you need to change the rules in a new edition, but what's up with the constant, unannounced changes to the fluff with each and every iteration of the rules?

Nothing about Githzerai behavior has changed from Fiend Folio to Planescape to Expanded Psionics Handbook to Player's Handbook 3 to... wherever they debuted in 5e. They were made LN because they're a monastic culture... but they didn't even manage to become LN until it was no longer a requirement for the Monk class.
Lake Geneva TSR: "Githzerai aren't evil, but they are jerks ...CN!"
Seattle WotC: "Githzerai aren't evil, but they are jerks ...LN!"
 
I can understand how that might happen. I've got a number of friends I enjoy taunting by telling them the problem with D&D's alignment system is that Lawful Good is an oxymoron.

It is Just Another Fine Example of how the L/C axis and to a large extent the G/E axis are assigned to creatures/societies completely arbitrarily and are by consequence completely meaningless-- they no longer even serve their original function of marking "alignment" with cosmic forces.

edit: Though, really, Tieflings? They got a Charisma bonus and all of their iconic classes were Charisma classes... so what the Hell was up with the penalty in 3.X?
 
Zhjaeve (NWN2), 3.5 ruleset is certainly LN, as is Dak'kon (PS: T) highly modded 2nd edition rules.

(Both characters are portrayed as slightly less jerkish than the average member of their race, but YMMV.)
 
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neogod22

Explorer
Fiend Folio, p, 45, Githerzai Alignment: Chaotic Neutral.

Not sure how that fit in with the whole "Monastic creatures" description, but it's fine.
Yeah, it might've been a misprint because, why would a LN race choose to live in the plane of chaos? But it makes sense because their strong minds allows them to create any environment they want, and their lawful nature brings stability to an unstable plane. They actually have to be extremely lawful to keep their island fortresses in existence. If you read about how they fight in Limbo, it's pretty bada$$ since they can change the environment at will to give them the advantage, and their enemies a disadvantage.
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Yeah, it might've been a misprint because, why would a LN race choose to live in the plane of chaos? But it makes sense because their strong minds allows them to create any environment they want, and their lawful nature brings stability to an unstable plane. They actually have to be extremely lawful to keep their island fortresses in existence. If you read about how they fight in Limbo, it's pretty bada$$ since they can change the environment at will to give them the advantage, and their enemies a disadvantage.
I don't think it was a misprint; I think it's an issue with the alignment system.

If you place them as denizens of Limbo, like the Fiend Folio did (sayng that co-exist with the slaadi), then they would have to be CN like the plane, right? That's how 1e cosmology works.

....but, they are also organized in monastic orders (and are MONKS that theoretically must be lawful in alignment), that live in fortresses, have strong minds, travel in groups, and so on,

So, it's fine. :)
 

neogod22

Explorer
I don't think it was a misprint; I think it's an issue with the alignment system.

If you place them as denizens of Limbo, like the Fiend Folio did (sayng that co-exist with the slaadi), then they would have to be CN like the plane, right? That's how 1e cosmology works.

....but, they are also organized in monastic orders (and are MONKS that theoretically must be lawful in alignment), that live in fortresses, have strong minds, travel in groups, and so on,

So, it's fine. :)
Coexist is a strong word lol. They both were there, but they weren't at peace. The Slaad are at war with everyone. This sounds like the editor really didn't know what they were talking about. The lore of the Githzerai never changed, just that person's understanding of what's going on. Not even all the Slaad are CN, only the lesser ones. The Grey Slaad may be CE, but death, black, and white are definitely CE.
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Coexist is a strong word lol.
The githzerai are a race of inhabitants of limbo, co-existing with the slaadi

That's the introduction to the Fiend Folio description of the Githerzai, p. 45. That's as canonical as you can get, since that's the official introduction.

So, you can take that word choice up with the official powers that be. :)
 

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