Have I spoiled my PCs?

[catsclaw227]

My party had JUST gotten to 6th level when this encounter happened. Beguiler in the party got initiative and cast her Deep Slumber spell (greater spell focus - enchantment, 18cha) and that thing went down for the count.

Barbarian/Dragon Shaman did coup de gras with her keen great axe and it was all over.

So much for a tough encounter for my group....

 

[RedFox]

So long as they know what they're up against and have a reasonable understanding of what that attack is (and what are valid tactics for dealing with it), then it's all good. If someone wants to make 100% sure that they're safe, all they have to do is

Spoiler

close their eyes

, after all.

 

[Fishbone]

Avert gaze and try to throw a Will save spell on it. It doesn't seem like that harsh of an encounter.

 

[GQuail]

Right, stone to flesh, stone salve, and the like are simply not affordable for 4th level PCs.

Since Savage Tide is both fairly lethal and also piratical, I use the "lives" rule from Skull and Bones, where you have 1d4+1 "lives" and when you die, you come back shortly(usually with a far-fetched tale of how you beat the odds) with a minor inconvenience, like a lost eye, a facial scar, or a missing limb.

In this case, the PCs were short one stone salve, so I had Urol attempt to brew up a makeshift stone salve from the basilisk's eyes. The party decided that the one guy who hadn't lost a life so far would take one for the team, and he rolled on the table and got the Missing Eye(-2 init, -2 Reflex, -2 Dex-based skills).

I told the player that Urol's impromptu stone salve worked....except for one of his eyes, which was still stone. This prompted an onslaught of bad jokes from the other players (one of the PCs asked that one to take a look at a stone trap, since he 'had an eye for that sort of thing').

Personally, I thought it was a rather good solution - eye for an eye, and all that.

That is a really cool idea, actually. I'll have to remember that one. :>

As for the lethality thereof: tehre are plenty of GMs who aren't fond of "save or die", and in the situation described that's basically what petrification is: and I can appreciate why players who haven't had to worry about it before (especially at that level) would be unchuffed. The Dungeon APs are always pretty hard going on players but even then, the beast in question is not necesarilly the insta-death that occured - as with a lot of foes, the difference between randomly turning into it's lair and knowing about it and planning ahead can make all tehd ifference.

If your players don't like that kind of thing and neither do you, you are by no means "spoiling" them, and maybe you'll need to make some adjustmetns to the AP to continue:either removing the monster or adjusting the set-up so healing it is easier. I've put a similarly levelled party against a Basilisk before, but when one of their sidekicks got petrified I used it as an excuse to visit a Faerie town for magical aid - that kind of distraction may not be practical in a tight moving plot like the AP.

 

[Arnwyn]

Usually, when I run campaigns of my own creation, I stay away from that particular type of monster, but now I'm wondering if I've been spoiling my PCs too much.

Have I?

Probably, if that really was the reaction of the players of six 5th level PCs about a CR 5 encounter...

Either that, or they have the complete inability to recognize poor rolls when they see them!

 

[ThatGuyThere]

Definitively, no.

Save-or-sink powers are simply no fun. They're poor design.

The idea - the "one big roll" - is a ton of fun. That "da-DUM" moment when your heart beats a little faster or you exhale the breath you were holding when you succeed - or feel your heart sink when you fail - is part of why D&D is fun. The problem is, the consequences of failure (character death) far outway the benefits of success (...fight a basilisk).

"Save-Or-Sink" powers work better when you get to "try again". Compare Hold Person* and Hideous Laughter*. Even though it's a higher-level spell, and far more crippling, my baddies prepare Hold Person much more often than Hideous Laughter, because when you're affected by Hideous Laughter you don't get to do anything; when you're affected by Hold Person, you get a saving throw each round.

Imagine a basilisk with a "Hold Person" gaze. It's as effective as ever, in combat - you didn't fear a basilisk because of it's bite. But it now becomes a creature that is far more dangerous in combination. A basilisk working with a group of Grimlocks poses the tactical problem that - if you are rendered helpless - the Grimlocks are likely to finish you, or drag you back to their lair; with the ordinary basilisk, the tactical challenge was over after a single failed saving throw.

"Single-Save-or-Die" isn't fun. There's the momentary *illusion* of fun, as you roll the save, but in reality, such powers overall weaken the fun of the game.

...after all, if "single-roll-results" were *that* much fun, wouldn't we use them to resolve all combats?

* Of course, I've also come to detest "Save Neg" powers. But I'll save that for elsewhere.

 

[molonel]

Maybe I'm just a crusty old DM but I would have come to the next session with a bottle of wet wipes, and told them to wipe the sand out of their [*bleeps*].

Maybe they aren't exactly spoiled, but what's the point of adventuring if you're never challenged or put against the ropes?

 

[shilsen]

Maybe I'm just a crusty old DM but I would have come to the next session with a bottle of wet wipes, and told them to wipe the sand out of their [*bleeps*].

Maybe they aren't exactly spoiled, but what's the point of adventuring if you're never challenged or put against the ropes?

Many people want to be challenged in ways other than having their PCs die permanently, as happens to be the case here. And it's really easy to challenge PCs in a whole lot of other ways.

 

[Gundark]

Short answer? no. Long answer? maybe. I've been running the Age of Worms. I have gotten a fair amount of complining from my PCs. This is due to the AP being nastier than what I used to run. So the group wasn't prepared for the deadliness. Is this my fault? I warned them and warned them about upcoming nastyness. They choose to play the AP regardless....

This encounter sounded like some bad rolls on their part. Dungeon magazine APs are traditionally nasty. Did you warn them up front that it might be tougher/diffedrent than what they're used to? If so, then they shouldn't whine. You warned them.

PS. I hate save or die powers too