Have the third-party d20 publishers failed?

[Belen]

How much better would the market have been if the d20 publishers had concentrated on 4 big books per year, but provided 8-12 adventurers that utilized those products!?

I think it is a good thing that publishers are dropping out of the d20 market. It is too oversaturated and entirely too difficult to know what to buy. They have flooded the market with sourcebooks, yet provided no adventures to USE the sourcebooks.

Adventures can drive sales for larger books. Players who enjoyed a great adventure may want to buy the larger book because the adventure was cool!

Now, we have a flood of products, but there is no way to use a lot of them because weekend warrior GMs do not have the time to create adventures and use non-WOTC source material.

New sourcebooks are fine and dandy, but they will never sell well unless they are supported beyond a fire and forget attitude. Maybe the big publishers will realize this now that WOTC is getting back into adventures.

For example, Green Ronin's Blue Rose setting really needs a few support adventures. You cannot create a setting targeted at the ladies and not give them any idea of how to run the game. Or the Book of Iron Might....how cool would it be to have a short adventure using some of that stuff. That way, a GM can use the darn book without having to read it cover to cover and master it and still provide a game on the weekend!

IMO, the third party d20 market has failed new GMs and failed to help grow the hooby in their mad dash to grab profit. If they had taken some time to help grow the pie, then more money would be there.

 

[Crothian]

I couldn't disagree more...I use third party suppliments all the time, but rarely ever use their modules. Its easy with a source like EN World to determine which are the good and bad sourcebooks, but even without the net I've found that spending a little time at the gaming store serves the purpose as well.

 

[Emiricol]

I've found tons of excellent 3rd party stuff. And a lot of craptastic stuff too. Checking reviews such as those found here and on other sites is an excellent way of narrowing down to the good items.

I also think that most of the D20 publishers, not including the big ones like FFG, AEG, Mongoose etc were just people with an idea and with the new license they could actually publish it. The cream floated, the drek sank - as it should be.

I agree some things need more support, but it is unreasonable to expect any business to publish items on which they feel they will lose money.

 

[collin]

I think this subject could be expanded to an even greater question: have game-publishers failed? Where are the really hot new games for the next 3-4 years? It's all rehash, tweaking, etc. Another card game, another miniatures game - so what? Where's the next new exciting RPG or HeroClix or (fill in the blank)? The gaming industry (aside from electronic games) is about to hit a recession in a big way, I'm afraid, unless some really creative people with some $$ backing can get some truly new products out there. Otherwise we'll all continue to just keep rolling those dice, playing Axis & Allies or D&D from now till doomsday.

-collin
:\

 

[Belen]

I couldn't disagree more...I use third party suppliments all the time, but rarely ever use their modules. Its easy with a source like EN World to determine which are the good and bad sourcebooks, but even without the net I've found that spending a little time at the gaming store serves the purpose as well.

Yes, but you're a tried and true GM and gamer. Try telling that to a 15 year old kid just getting into the market. They see all these books about roleplaying and cool mechanics for characters, but few to no actual adventures to show them how to USE it.

Personally, I learned to create my own adventures by running published ones, then modifying them to fit a campaign story and finally do it on my own.

I can go to any one of the hobby stores in the triangle and find a ton of sourcebooks, yet not one of them have a decent supply of adventures. And the only adventurers they do have are 3.0!

So, of course they can buy the new book from Atlas of Green Ronin, but they sure as heck have no tools to show them how to use them.

 

[Crothian]

Also, many gamers hate when they get a module that forces them to buy sourcebooks to use. Second edition had this probblem to some degree it it made it so some people just stopped buying becasue they didn't weant to also buy all the other material the module required.

 

[Crothian]

Yes, but you're a tried and true GM and gamer. Try telling that to a 15 year old kid just getting into the market. They see all these books about roleplaying and cool mechanics for characters, but few to no actual adventures to show them how to USE it.

The kids will learn the same way I did. I started in 80 but it was not until 85 that I ran a module. We never had anyone showing us, we stumbled threough it and had fun. Kids today at least have video games and other media to show them how an adventure fits together.

 

[Belen]

I've found tons of excellent 3rd party stuff. And a lot of craptastic stuff too. Checking reviews such as those found here and on other sites is an excellent way of narrowing down to the good items.

I also think that most of the D20 publishers, not including the big ones like FFG, AEG, Mongoose etc were just people with an idea and with the new license they could actually publish it. The cream floated, the drek sank - as it should be.

I agree some things need more support, but it is unreasonable to expect any business to publish items on which they feel they will lose money.

Consider for a moment, that you are not and ENWorlder (ie. the majority of the market). Think about being new to the game. You have no idea where to go to find reviews. You think it would be cool to play, but why buy the books if you cannot pick up an adventure to show you how some of the stuff in the books work.

 

[Crothian]

Consider for a moment, that you are not and ENWorlder (ie. the majority of the market). Think about being new to the game. You have no idea where to go to find reviews. You think it would be cool to play, but why buy the books if you cannot pick up an adventure to show you how some of the stuff in the books work.

Isn't this how gamers have been doing it since the begiining of the industry? Also, look at the other RPGs on the market, few of them actually use adventures. Yet they someone manage to have people play them as well.

 

[Belen]

Also, many gamers hate when they get a module that forces them to buy sourcebooks to use. Second edition had this probblem to some degree it it made it so some people just stopped buying becasue they didn't weant to also buy all the other material the module required.

No one said that the adventures would require them, but they could do a heck of a job as a marketing tool!

That's right kid, spend 10 bucks on this adventure.
Kid plays adventure and loves the dread pirate Blaen and wants to make one for himself.
Kid sees that he can make dread pirate by buying this nice, shiny $30 dollar book.