Have the third-party d20 publishers failed?

[Belen]

Hmm. I'm certain you didn't mean to be as insulting as you sound. Right?

Because "the ladies" are just as capable of figuring out how to run a game as men are. And I should know.

Buttercup, you are hardly a 15 year old lady who just read Mercedes Lackey, sees Blue Rose and wants to buy it, yet have never gamed before, so do not really know what you're doing.

It was not meant as an insult.

I am saying this because I needed adventures when I was 15. Heck, I could still use them now.

 

[Belen]

That is your taste - I'd hate to see more adventures, because they're useless to me. My group throws dice at me if I even say 'module' - a lot of folks like to roll their own.

And the RPG market isn't going anywhere.

The adventures aren't meant for you. They are meant for Bobby or Lilly who are just started out and don't want their friends to think they are lame because they do not know what their doing.

 

[Crothian]

The adventures aren't meant for you. They are meant for Bobby or Lilly who are just started out and don't want their friends to think they are lame because they do not know what their doing.

Well, there are products out there aimed at the kids. Troll Lods just released their little box set that is rules lite. There is d20 everquest and Warcraft out there which the kids should easily be able to grasp after playing the video games. But adventures just don't do well, and fewer stores and distrubitors will want to carry them, soi it's ll be tough to get people to even see them let alone buy.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

IMO, WotC is doing the right thing in returning to adventure publishing. HOWEVER, they need to do it well. I agree that adventures don't generally sell well, and b/c of that they should focus on fewer adventures (quantity) but better adventures (quality). Maybe it's a loss leader, but so long as you're going in knowing that then it's ok.

I think the market is super-saturated at the moment and some good adventures could recoup some of that market for WotC.

In terms of 3rd party publishers, Necromancer Games puts out amazing adventures.

 

[Belen]

Well, there are products out there aimed at the kids. Troll Lods just released their little box set that is rules lite. There is d20 everquest and Warcraft out there which the kids should easily be able to grasp after playing the video games. But adventures just don't do well, and fewer stores and distrubitors will want to carry them, soi it's ll be tough to get people to even see them let alone buy.

Then don't make them buy them. Package little 10-20 pages adventures with the product or send them to the stores to give away when someone wants to buy a Green Ronin book etc.

Next time someone comes in to ask for a adventure, the store can point them to one of the 32-64 page adventures that can be purchased etc.

Heck, my friends run a game store and they are trying to get rid of all the d20 crap that has been there for 4 years, yet all those nifty adventures sold a while ago.

 

[Desdichado]

Those other systems are not entry level systems. I would say 99% of those players cut their teeth on DnD.

I would say that 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot, including that one.

 

[Belen]

I would say that 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot, including that one.

Your right, but I still think it a valid number. Besides I never said it was a true stat as my statement fully acknowledges that it is my opinion.

 

[Aaron2]

Yet you're making my point for me. I never said that adventures need to be great sellers. Consider them a cost of doing business; or consider them a part of your marketing budget.

I think your missing the larger point. If publishers thought they could make money on adventures then they would. But, with a few exceptions, they aren't. If what your saying is true (that adventures would result in higher supplement sales) then the only excuse as to why such adventures aren't available is that there is a great conspiracy against making adventures. In sort, if you lose more money publishing adventures than you gain in increased setting/supplement sales then its pointless.

There are supplements that have adventures made for them; Midnight and AU are just two. The main problem is that most game book sales are during the first two to three months after release. The supplement's sales are pretty much done before any adventures would be ready.


Aaron

 

[Buttercup]

Buttercup, you are hardly a 15 year old lady who just read Mercedes Lackey, sees Blue Rose and wants to buy it, yet have never gamed before, so do not really know what you're doing.

I may not be 15, but I did teach myself to play and DM 4 years ago.

It was not meant as an insult.

Fair enough. No harm done.

I am saying this because I needed adventures when I was 15. Heck, I could still use them now.

So you find that adventures are actually useful? (Well of course you do, else you wouldn't have started this thread. But it's perplexing to me.) I have *tried* to use them, but my players always wander off to do other stuff. So for me, adventures aren't actually less work, since I have to slap stuff onto them at the last minute when the party goes haring off. Heck, I'm presently trying to run the Freeport trilogy, but they barely managed to pay attention long enough to finish the first module, because they wanted to explore the jungle.

Actually, I haven't ever run an adventure straight through, except for one that I was play-testing, preparatory to writing a review. My players hated every minute of it. In fact, I never wrote the review because I couldn't find anything constructive to say, and I didn't want to appear to be doing a hatchet job. Admitedly, the adventure was one of the worst railroads I've ever seen.

Oh, and I should probably tell you that although I don't like running published adventures, I do buy them. I think I own nearly every adventure published for 3.0, except for the ones with the sluts on the covers. I even bought the FFE adventures! Why do I buy them? Hmm. Possibly I'm crazy. Or possibly I like to read them for ideas. You be the judge.

 

[Faraer]

Any number of assumptions taken for granted in various industries have been seen to be wrong; I wouldn't ever assume any given group of people knows what they're doing. But in any case, I think RPGs would be far *culturally* healthier if more modules were published and fewer rules-heavy sourcebooks.