Have the third-party d20 publishers failed?

[Belen]

Isn't this how gamers have been doing it since the begiining of the industry? Also, look at the other RPGs on the market, few of them actually use adventures. Yet they someone manage to have people play them as well.

Those other systems are not entry level systems. I would say 99% of those players cut their teeth on DnD.

 

[Belen]

The kids will learn the same way I did. I started in 80 but it was not until 85 that I ran a module. We never had anyone showing us, we stumbled threough it and had fun. Kids today at least have video games and other media to show them how an adventure fits together.

Some of them will learn the way you did. Thus, we get a static market. How many more would enter the market if things were made a bit easier.

 

[Crothian]

No one said that the adventures would require them, but they could do a heck of a job as a marketing tool!

That's right kid, spend 10 bucks on this adventure.
Kid plays adventure and loves the dread pirate Blaen and wants to make one for himself.
Kid sees that he can make dread pirate by buying this nice, shiny $30 dollar book.

so, you want modules that highlite bits from the sourcebooks but don't require the sourcebooks? Sort of tlike an introduction to the sourcebook or something like that?

 

[mearls]

Or the Book of Iron Might....how cool would it be to have a short adventure using some of that stuff. That way, a GM can use the darn book without having to read it cover to cover and master it and still provide a game on the weekend!

A published adventure, released through distribution, wouldn't be a good seller. An adventure in the book might work, but then you run into space issues. I try to include GMing advice in the book that illustrates how to use the maneuver system, but a full-blown adventure is a bit too space intensive.

However, I'm planning on some high utility stuff that I hope really makes the BOIM very easy to dive into. You're going to see some previews of the direction I'm going in with the Mystic Secrets previews and web columns.

 

[Crothian]

Some of them will learn the way you did. Thus, we get a static market. How many more would enter the market if things were made a bit easier.

Who knows, but I think if you really want products that expand the number of people playing you have to somehow tap into the Video Game RPG market, that's huge. If you could somehow find a way to get a small percentage of them to try RPGs, you will topple Wizards.

 

[Buttercup]

Adventures can drive sales for larger books. Players who enjoyed a great adventure may want to buy the larger book because the adventure was cool!

As far as I know, this has not been true, historically. Adventures do not sell all that well, since most DMs write their own. And perhaps your players are different than mine. Mine would never consider buying a sourcebook or any kind. Two of them have yet to purchase a PHB.

It's true that there has been some crap published for d20. But there has been a pretty high volume of good material too. More stuff is being published than any single person can buy.(although I've been trying!) But how is this different than mainstream publishing? Simon & Shuster, to take just one major publishing house, puts out far more titles each year than even most libraries buy. So? The idea is to cherry pick the titles that interest you. Don't like dark elves? Don't buy any of the sourcebooks. Like dwarves? Than maybe you'll want the race books by several different publishers. It's all about choice. Choice is good.

 

[Belen]

so, you want modules that highlite bits from the sourcebooks but don't require the sourcebooks? Sort of tlike an introduction to the sourcebook or something like that?

Exactly, but they would be more than just intro to sourcebooks.. They are also cheap intro to the companies themselves. How many more people would buy Green Ronin or Malhavoc if they did not have such a high price of entry.

Adventures can and should drive sales of other books. This is exactly what WOTC just realized.

Also, for every adventure that a GM purchases, they have 4-6 players. If those players like the adventure or even if they just want to know more about the stuff in that adventure, then they are more likely to buy that larger product.

Adventures make great teasers, help grow the market by keeping GMs as GMs and provide a cheaper source to get to know a company than a big book.

The current d20 publishers have made money off of the existing game pool, but they have done nothing to widen it by providing easier entrance into the game. Everyone knows that you have to spend money to make money.

No kid just into the hobby needs another sourcebook. They are barely understanding the 3 corebooks!!

 

[maddman75]

That is your taste - I'd hate to see more adventures, because they're useless to me. My group throws dice at me if I even say 'module' - a lot of folks like to roll their own.

And the RPG market isn't going anywhere.

 

[Buttercup]

For example, Green Ronin's Blue Rose setting really needs a few support adventures. You cannot create a setting targeted at the ladies and not give them any idea of how to run the game.

Hmm. I'm certain you didn't mean to be as insulting as you sound. Right?

Because "the ladies" are just as capable of figuring out how to run a game as men are. And I should know.

 

[Belen]

A published adventure, released through distribution, wouldn't be a good seller. An adventure in the book might work, but then you run into space issues. I try to include GMing advice in the book that illustrates how to use the maneuver system, but a full-blown adventure is a bit too space intensive.

However, I'm planning on some high utility stuff that I hope really makes the BOIM very easy to dive into. You're going to see some previews of the direction I'm going in with the Mystic Secrets previews and web columns.

Yet you're making my point for me. I never said that adventures need to be great sellers. Consider them a cost of doing business; or consider them a part of your marketing budget.

Whether you place a blurb in the sourcebook about an adventure that uses the material or a blurb in the adventure about where to learn more about the Iron Born, it does not matter.

The 15 year old with little money will buy that 10 dollar adventure before the 30 dollar book, because the 10 dollar adventure still lets him buy the new PS2 game.