Have you been disillusioned by the Forgotten Realms?

[freebfrost]

Another "no" vote here.

I too started back with the gray box, though I had read Ed's Dragon articles with interest since I started back in the late 40's as far as issues go.

I've always liked that fact that as a busy DM, the Realms material provided me with more than enough background material, both fluff and crunch, that really made it easy to make the setting seem alive in the eyes of the players.

And to reiterate what others have already said in this thread about uber-NPCs, convoluted storylines, and so on - it's YOUR game, you can pick and use what you want. And there is plenty to choose from.

To quote Egg Shen, "we take what we want and leave the rest - just like your salad bar."

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

A book and a game ! Two differnt things. You can twist the realm to your will and many do. A book is written in stone. Your point fell short wuith me. Sorry.

Clearly. Which was the point, but you seemed to have missed it. When someone buys FR books, are they buying... books? I am. I'm not buying rules when I buy a setting book. I'm buying fluff. Setting fluff is more applicable to stories than rules mechanics.

So you buy it for the rules. You're buying reasons aren't everyone's.

Don't make more complicated than it is. The Forgotten Realms is not a rules system. The Forgotten Realms is not a game.

As far as stories being written in stone, whether you agree with it or not, you might want to read up on Interpretive Theory and Literary Theory.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

no rupture to major lore... *falls over laughing*

Keep laughing for no reason and we'll have to check you in to an asylum for the insane.

J. Grenemyer

 

[Prince of Happiness]

I'm kinda vascillating. I loved the old grey boxed set. I remember desperately saving up money for the gold boxed set. I had a whole ton of the little region books, read a lot of the novels, etc. At some point, it just...got to be too much for me, and went to "hate it." I still have some favorite regions (the Shining South/Shaar/Chult, and the Lake of Steam Region...at least my version of it, anyways), but started to get very "eh" with the rest. After a while I didn't like the map of the Heartlands anyways.

I took a look at the FRCS book and I like it a bit, but then there's little things here and there that make me twitchy like "The Weave" and "The Shadow Weave." I can never read that and not think of Beautyshop with Queen Latifah. Then there's the references to magic as "The Art." I've spent enough time around tons of precious people who refer to what they do as "Their Art." Gack, I'll pass. I still find the whole "Mystra's Chosen" and Spellfire stuff yucky.

Anyways, I still come across things that make me say "cool!" I guess getting Serpent Kingdoms as con-swag helped. I flipped through it, I liked it. Also the drow invasion of Cormanthor was pretty neat too. I thought that dark elves taking over elven surface realms was always a fun idea, and I would have hated to see it not get used after the D&D Known World got canned.

To sum: I say "six of one, a half-dozen of the other." I'm on the fence on this.

 

[Nightfall]

Yeah well Ao completely disillusioned me about the realms. If you have an Overgod and he's Ken Lay...well chances are you just find it won't do for you any more.

 

[Pants]

Hm, well I like the realms... or more importantly, parts of the realms, at least. I fot into FR with the Baldur's Gate games and then later on I bought the 3e FRCS, which really inspired me to run some campaigns there, but as a whole, I find the Realms to be just mediocre. There are areas of FR that I really, really like and areas that I just find utterly boring. The setting is far too patchwork for my tastes. The plethora of nosey deities doesn't help either, deities so nosey that you can't seem to take a crap in the Realms without causing the deaths of the God of Small Minnows, the God of Rocks that Were Skipped Three Times Across a River, and the God of Small, Angry Zits. (I joke, I joke )

Add to that a multitude of subraces, a bunch of uber-NPC's, and nothing really tying the setting together.

I don't mind playing there and I don't mind running it, but it's nowhere near being my favorite. Plus, it has Bane, the Zhents, Waterdeep, and the Time of Troubles (which I like, though the repercussions of it kinda suck). I'm not really disillusioned by the Realms though, since I found it mediocre from the start.

 

[Cherub]

The Realms grew on me in 3E, to the point that I now run a campaign there. But it's more in the style of the Grey Box. I don't use the majority of the "traditional" Realms NPCs; I ignore the novels and the "Let's blow up the Realms crisis of the week", Tilverton still exists, etc. I try for more of a Greyhawk flavor, but with more history and setting support.

It's much easier if you ignore the novels and Ed Greenwood et al's characters, and simply make it your own world, as you would with any other campaign setting.

DITTO!

 

[ricoboc]

Clearly. Which was the point, but you seemed to have missed it. When someone buys FR books, are they buying... books? I am. I'm not buying rules when I buy a setting book. I'm buying fluff. Setting fluff is more applicable to stories than rules mechanics.

It's obvious you missed the point of both my previous post. A novel is read as is "PERIOD" any gaming book regardless of type can be used as the gamer sees fit. (be it fluff or not)

Perhaps you read deeper into my post than was intended.

I was clearly stating that I enjoy The Forgotten Realms and use it the way I see fit. Many others complain about this or that and treat the material as stead fast rules and settings. You tried to make this sound like an attack on other DM's. It was not. I mereley stated that any DM worth his weight in gold would understand this and would have very little to complain about. They in turn would use the books and related material to their advantage and steal from other sytems and make great worlds of their own.

Plain and simple.

And by the way The Forgotten Realms is a game world! As a matter of fact Im looking at my old copy of The Magister as I write this. This book is an accessory for the Forgotten Realms GAME WORLD. Such is stated by the authors.
What are you going to tell me next? Dragonlance was not intended for gaming?

Don't make more complicated than it is. The Forgotten Realms is not a rules system. The Forgotten Realms is not a game.

Here's the discription Of Forgotten Realms from Amazazon. SURE SOUNDS LIKE A GAME TO ME...

Book Description
Dark perils and great deeds await.

Welcome to Faerûn, a land of high magic, terrifying monsters, ancient ruins, and hidden wonders. From the forbidding forests of the Silver Marches to the teeming cities of the Inner Sea, Faerûn encompasses shining kingdoms, monster-infested wastes, endless caverns, and sinister citadels. The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting presents the most comprehensive fantasy world ever described!

This book contains all the details you need to play Dungeons & Dragons adventures in the Forgotten Realms setting:

A new full-color poster map of Faerûn.
Dozens of new races, feats, and prestige classes for your characters.
The Faerûnian pantheon, including over 100 deities and powers.
Highly detailed regions, new monsters, mysterious sites, and two short adventures to begin your campaign.

The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting is fully updated and redesigned for the new edition of the D&D game. To make full use of this book, you also need the Player's Handbook, the Dungeon Master's Guide, and the Monster Manual.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

It's obvious you missed the point of both my previous post. A novel is read as is "PERIOD" any gaming book regardless of type can be used as the gamer sees fit. (be it fluff or not)

No I got your point. I was trying to help you see that most (but not all) complaints towards the Realms in this thread have nothing, nada, zilch, to do with "rules and regulations (as you explicitly claimed in your post#1), but with non-rules authorship of the setting. I can make the distinction, but I'm sorry you don't seem to. I can crack open my copy of The Magister and can differentiate between rules mechanics and the setting flavor written all around them.

I repeat my recommendation to familiarize yourself with Interpretive Theory and Literary Theory. Despite your rigorous statements to the contrary, many would take issue with your assertion that novels are static and have but a single interpretation... "PERIOD". It would help you with my analogy that apparently sailed over your head. I admit, it was probably a bit vague if you haven't heard of hermeneutics.

You tried to make this sound like an attack on other DM's. It was not. I mereley stated that any DM worth his weight in gold would understand this and would have very little to complain about.

Don't be so coy. This is as good as saying that anyone who has a complaint is not a DM worth their weight in gold. So, if someone has a complaint with FR, ricoboc declares you not worth your weight in gold. Unworthy. Someone with complaints about FR should take that as a kindness?

What I was saying in my replies is that is elitist hogwash.

I'll repeat what I said that I believe explains why even the best DMs, the ones worth their weight in diamonds, dismiss FR (or any setting with excrutiating details and countless accessories). Sometimes it is too much effort for even the best of the best DMs because the problems they find with material published about the setting are so numerous they might as well write their own setting. They aren't unworthy DM's just because they don't want the hassle of patching what they see as flaws. They buy published worlds because they don't want the hassle of making everything up. So even the best DMs can have legitimate complaints worth voicing. They can own everything you do, they can understand everything you do, they can be as good a DM as you are, and they can still have lots to complain about because they have different values than you do about what is appealing.

And by the way The Forgotten Realms is a game world!

Semantics. Fine. The Forgotten Realms game world is not a rules system. The Forgotten Realms game world is not a game. A game world is still a work of fiction, agree? A novel is a work of fiction, agree? A game is not fiction, agree? A system of rules is not fiction, agree? Does this help you with my analogy yet?

That was not the description of the Forgotten Realms. That was the description of the FRCS, which the blurb says... "is fully updated and redesigned for the new edition of the D&D game. To make full use of this book, you also need the Player's Handbook, the Dungeon Master's Guide, and the Monster Manual. There is no game there. You can't buy the FRCS alone and "play" it as a game. D&D provides the game, the FRCS provides context for your imagination when playing D&D.

 

[Desdichado]

I mereley stated that any DM worth his weight in gold would understand this and would have very little to complain about.

I weigh about 210 lbs after a full meal. Even using a conservative average price of gold, I'd be worth almost a million and a half dollars if I were worth my weight in gold. And I suspect a lot of DMs weigh quite a bit more than me. I dunno about you, but I've never met anyone who was that good of a DM. Therefore, you'll continue to get complaints about FR from those good GM's who maybe are worth their weight in brass or tin (but not gold).

By the way, if these DMs are really so good; what do they need FR for in the first place? They've already got ideas as good as the good ones in FR, and aren't saddled with all of the many bad ideas that also permeate the Realms, right? If they're that good?