Have you been disillusioned by the Forgotten Realms?

[Graf]

(I've been very impressed with the quality of posts on this thread.... usually this kind of thing would generate some sUx/roX flamebait pretty quickly.... Nice to see.)

As I was first getting into DnD the grey box and Spellfire & the Crystal Shard came out. The world was just forming, the novels had strong focuses on the “core DnD mythology” of a bunch of people (often who were mid-to-low-level) standing up to evil forces and winning.

Needless to say I was hooked.

I also actually enjoyed the Time of Troubles. While the novels were painfully appalling the idea of a once in a millennia change happening worked for me and the comics by the Grubbs dealt with a lot of fascinating themes in a very mature way.

Having said that I agree with everyone else that the constant focus on the novels and the “rise of the flawless-character-who-proxies-for-the-author’s-ego in an unending stream of novels” (i.e. Elminster and Drizz’t) was the death of the setting.

Everyone can quibble with the setting as it is now, but the authors are doing what they can to make it a playable world, within the confines of what the current fans will accept. I don’t envy them.
Personally the constant drumbeat of “turning the dial to 11” (elminster having a template he got from scoring with a goddess that gives +10 to Con, the “shadow weave that is super-special-scary-magic”, the god confusion, the unbalanced subraces, the swarm of overpowering enemies in floating castles, etc) keeps the setting from being useful to people who want a less munchkiny game world.

So I’m disillusioned with the setting, and I think that Eberron is much better, but I accept that it’s really only an accident of history (as opposed to a fundamental problem with the world). And one of my players and I were talking recently about how the Red Wizards and a few other things are neat.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

Round 2, so to speak...

· How do you feel about the setting now, and why do you feel that way?

Hell, I've been playing in the Realms since the old Grey Box came out. I daresay I’ve an informed opinion on the subject. Here goes…

All things considered, I think the Realms are at their best right now. It's got solid sourcebooks that:

*Don't meander to far into the "we love the Realms for the Realms/you don't just have to play DnD in the Realms to love The Realms/please tell us how many warts Durnan has on his ass --cause that's super-important lore that all true Realms Fans really need to know" mindset.

*Have a whole hell of a lot more flavor and Relevant-to-the-DM lore than many who'd call themselves old-school Realms fans would care to admit.

*Have very smartly removed in-place setting restrictions, such as the ban on the use of high level magic, "Chosen Only" magic and 'Elven High Mage Class Information and their magic that PC's can't ever become or ever hope to use', etc...

*Include Prestige Classes in exactly the manner they were meant to be used.

*No longer support all the intra-planar Planescape garbage; instead we finally get a Cosmology that is entirely specific to the Realms, with no rupture to the major lore and with no restriction on connectivity to the Great Wheel or anywhere else, if a DM wants to use (or continue using) such in his or her game.

*Got rid of TSR's Kitchen Sink approach to world design. No longer must we suffer from the, "If it's in ADnD, it's in the Realms" approach.

· Are you as happy with it as you are Greyhawk and Eberron, the other two supported settings?

Well, other than Dragon and Dungeon I've not seen much support for Greyhawk, so I don't know if I can comment relative to that setting. Well yes I can: I’m more happy with the Realms than Greyhawk (the later needs more support, where feasible).

As for Eberron, well I'm as happy with it as the Realms. Eberron’s got lots in it that can be ported over to the Realms. They're both good settings in my book, and I hope they both appeal to a wide set of the gaming audience and last a very long time.

· Are you as happy with it as you used to be? Alternately, are you as unhappy with it as you used to be?

With the setting I’m quite as happy as before, though nothing can replace the sense of wonder I felt when I cracked open the Grey Box and read about such a fantastic place as the Realms…from Elminster’s warning on the veracity of the words found in the DM’s Guide to the Realms and the Realms Cyclopedia, to the cool color and texture of those faux-yellow, scroll-like pages, to the maps and descriptions for Lashan’s Fall and the Halls of the Beast Tamers below Myth Drannor…

I’m still as unhappy as ever with all the rabid fanboys.

From those who claim, "Whatever they changed they did because some jerk game designer didn't like this or that about the Realms; it's not like they based their decisions on market research or bothered to sample the fanbase or anything like that" to those who down the years have kissed up to various writers and authors, then bashed whatever Realmslore they gleaned from them over other people’s heads…I’m talking about the, “Ed says this, which means it’s Canon, so that’s just how it is no matter what you say or do in your piddly little campaign.”

I just wish those idiots would realize it’s exactly what happens in piddly little campaigns that’s kept the Realms alive for so long….

J. Grenemyer

 

[Shemeska]

*No longer support all the intra-planar Planescape garbage; instead we finally get a Cosmology that is entirely specific to the Realms, with no rupture to the major lore and with no restriction on connectivity to the Great Wheel or anywhere else, if a DM wants to use (or continue using) such in his or her game.

Emphasis mine.

no rupture to major lore... *falls over laughing*

 

[ricoboc]

Hmmmmmmm???

I read through the thread and had to shake my head at some of the replies. First off, everyone needs to keep in mind that nothing is written in stone. You can twist the realm anyway you see fit. This is the DM's call, and a good DM can handle things the way he sees fit. Everytime I here people talk about rules and regulations I ask myself "What game are they playing?" D&D is full of guidelines not stead fast rules. Their are many styles of play that can be combined and twisted to work with any campaign. Forgotten Realms is a great world and can be used as any DM sees fit. I know some of you will reply with "Well this book says, and this book says." The books are meant to be guidelines and should be used as such. I would get VERY bored if I used every book as a rule book.
A good example is the 3.0 player handbook the human deity most worshiped by humans should be the sun God Pelor. This is never used in our circle. This is just a good place to start. You dont have to take the book literally. Imagination is key to all great DM's.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I read through the thread and had to shake my head at some of the replies.

I read this post and had to shake my head. *ahem*

First off, everyone needs to keep in mind that nothing is written in stone. You can twist the realm anyway you see fit. This is the DM's call, and a good DM can handle things the way he sees fit. Everytime I [hear] people talk about rules and regulations I ask myself "What game are they playing?" D&D is full of guidelines not stead fast rules.

[Yawn]... No kidding!

Ok. Complaining about the Realms books is almost never complaints about rules. It's complaints about the fluff. Bringing up rules is entirely beside the point. Almost a non sequitur.

Saying people aren't good DM's if they can't take what accessories are published and make up their own when they don't like what's there is silly. Think of it this way. Say you pick up a novel that you hear everyone raving about. You read the book and it started out great but after a hundred pages, maybe you never liked the way the characters were portrayed, maybe the tone changes badly, maybe you don't think the environment the characters are in is believable, it is bad enough that you can't bear it and put it down.

You talk to people who loved it. They don't understand what you don't like responding by saying, "Well a truly good reader can interpret what they read any way they see fit and make of it what they will. They can interpret it into something that is suitable and enjoyable for them. It is all in the imagination of the reader. There are great words throughout the book, and a good read is one with imagination and if they have imagination they can take those good words and imagine a paragraph they like around those words. A truly good reader can interpret absolutely anything from the writing no matter what the author writes."

Sometimes it is too much effort for some DMs because the problems they find are so numerous they might as well write their own setting. They aren't bad DM's because they don't want the hassle. They buy published worlds because they don't want the hassle of making everything up. Why not just say, "A truly good DM doesn't need a published world as a crutch. It's all in the imagination anyway and imagination is the key to great DM's."

 

[Desdichado]

Emphasis mine.

no rupture to major lore... *falls over laughing*

Eh, you only think that because you play FR as a pit stop in your Planescape setting. For dedicated FR players, I doubt the cosmological shift is much of a big deal, and I think it's one of the best changes made to the setting, personally.

Every setting deserves its own cosmology, not just the Greyhawk one tacked on.

 

[Deadguy]

Every setting deserves its own cosmology, not just the Greyhawk one tacked on.

Well said, Joshua! Done right the cosmology of a setting can be made to iteract with teh setting creating situations and adventures that are unique. That has turned out to be one of Eberron's great strengths - its orrery cosmology oozes favlour and creates adventures.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Hell no. Always liked the Realms, and I still do. Sure, it's vanilla D&D, but we do need that. There has to be conventional stuff for the other stuff to be unconventional against. And the FR are my favourite classic fantasy campaign setting.

Plus, all 3e Books (except Champions of Ruin) were really good.

 

[ricoboc]

Yawn right back at you...

Think of it this way. Say you pick up a novel that you hear everyone raving about. You read the book and it started out great but after a hundred pages, maybe you never liked the way the characters were portrayed, maybe the tone changes badly, maybe you don't think the environment the characters are in is believable, it is bad enough that you can't bear it and put it down.

A book and a game ! Two differnt things. You can twist the realm to your will and many do. A book is written in stone. Your point fell short wuith me. Sorry.

And bye the way, I wasnt calling anyone a bad DM. I mereley stated that good DM's add and twist things to their liking. HOUSE RULES my friend. My house has great imagination.

I YAWN right back at you.

One more thing: I'm sure everyone understood where my post was going without going into a ten page detailed explanation about what I like and dont like about the Realms.

Take what you like and leave the rest. SIMPLE. There will always be things not liked or used from any system. Forgotten Realms is a fine world. Treat it as yours.

 

[ricoboc]

I yawn right back at you