Pathfinder 1E Having trouble with a game I'm running

[ShinkenViolet]

I've been running the Jade Regent adventure path for my friends over the past couple of months. We are currently on book 2. Part of the adventure revolves around them having to go to a guildhall to gather information on any of the unusual stuff happening lately, and they were supposed to make a DC 30 Diplomacy check to get the information they needed.

There are a bunch of modifiers in a table on the page, a few minuses, but mostly pluses, and they managed to get one of the pluses, and it said each person is only supposed to do one check. No one got it, and one of my players decided to punch the guy they were talking to. I had them just get escorted out of the guild hall by the guards if they agreed to just leave without making more trouble, and they did that. None of them really want to assault the place at night, three of the four are Lawful and our only Chaotic character doesn't really do stealth, so he only has a +5 total in it.

The problem I am now having is thinking of a way to get the plot to move forward without being overly pushy or railroady, so that they still have fun. I put most of the blame on them not achieving all of the different modifiers for the Diplomacy check on everyone being super tired, something I did not know until we had all already gathered. I put it to a vote, asking my players if they just wanted to say this session never happened, or if they wanted to just roll with what had happened.

 

[Jester David]

For checks where the story really mandates success, where they succeed at a check or the story fails, I tend to apply a penalty for every 5 points they fail the check. Such as taking longer or costing some coins or the like.

In this case, I'd suggest having a lower ranking guild member overheard the discussion. He can either help sneak the players back in, if treated super nicely, or offer some of the same information for a price. He's basically selling the information so the party has to pay for what they could have gotten for free had they thought more.
He might ask other favours as well, if you're open to a side quest.

 

[ShinkenViolet]

That could work, I could easily incorporate the only thing I was really thinking of into it, where they get an anonymous note asking them to come somewhere, but I couldn't really think of what else to do. Thank you. ^_^

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

I immediately thought of the same solution that Jester stated, giving them the information they needed by having another person give it to them for a price or favor.

The other thing is perhaps they can go to a rival guildhall and try again with some checks that are a little easier (per DM fiat) so that they can get the information that they need to go forward.

The lack of options is why I usually steer away from AP's and if I use them I gut them and redo a lot of stuff to make it more my own style. Any way you do it, good luck.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Make your own DCs, seriously. I would also have recommended Knowledge (streetwise) checks or Gather Information checks, but again, the DC is probably too high.

What level are the PCs? I'm not familiar with that adventure path, but maybe they could use magic instead.

There was one adventure I went through a while back (The Thunder Below, 3.0), where finding an enemy "required" a Tracking check. I put required in quotes because apparently there were other ways that the DM didn't notice. We didn't have anyone with the Track feat. Much frustration ensued.

 

[ShinkenViolet]

They are level 4, but will be level 5 soon. The DC is 30, but there are a bunch of bonuses you can get to the check that add up to +27, I'm thinking the main reason my players didn't get all of them is because everyone was really tired and they weren't thinking clearly, because a few of the bonuses seem like things my players would do.

 

[Libramarian]

I've never run one of these adventure paths but I have run a bunch of Call of Cthulhu scenarios which tend to run into the same problem of leaving vital information up to a dice roll. If the players absolutely need some info to continue the storyline then I usually just give it to them. I don't fudge the dice roll, I just don't ask for one. You could come up with a side quest or extra cost for a failed roll, but use your narrative/pacing judgement. If you think everybody would like to get on with the main story then I don't think they would mind if you bypassed the roll.

 

[doghead]

Rich Burlew has a reworked Diplomacy Skill Check that is more about making a deal than making someone like you. If you plan a do-over, or to use Jester's suggestion then perhaps this will help give you a better outcome. The Risk vs Reward mechanic allows the PC's to effectively negotiate the DC down.

It seems like a much more reasonable mechanic, although I have not yet had a chance to give it a work out personally.

thotd

 

[Thotas]

... and Burlew's rework is so much better than the original rules any way, as long as that's been brought up. And if you think making someone like you is better served by the original rules and Burlew's take is best for making deals, you can use whatever you think fits the situation. I will use that when I run games in the future, for sure.

 

[karolusb]

I would use some sort of fail forward mechanic. So they failed the die roll (and punched a guy) now the guildmaster send them a message, if you can be on your best behavior, and you do me this favor. . . now you have a side quest. Dubious member of the guild offering to sell the information also works.