Hawk's Talon vs Spikes of the Manticore

[Pickles JG]

Weapon Focus and Lethal Hunter are good at level 1, but they don't scale, so they just become more and more useless as you level.

They do scale - they both increase to essentially +2 at paragon & +3 at epic.

Power on you for taking interesting feats, it just seems odd in a thread where you are talking about maxing damage not to take the damage feats. (or maybe it's more important )

 

[Branduil]

Initiate of the Faith, Skill Training (Thievery), Skill Focus (Stealth), Elven Precision, Alertness, Adept Power (Blade Barrier), Acolyte Power(Cure Serious)

Weapon Focus and Lethal Hunter are good at level 1, but they don't scale, so they just become more and more useless as you level. Actually, Leather Hunter Scales with Hunters Quarry so it might be worth taking.

Ah, multiclassing, so that makes sense. It might not be best to use your character to judge these powers, though, since that makes your PC not as "optimal" in his primary role as he could be.

OK, so you're calculating the attacks independently like this:
Spikes of the Manticore = (11+5+2+1)*.5 + (5.5+5+2+1)*.5 + 4.5*.75 = 19.625

That makes sense.

Yup, that's how it works. It's bit difficult to figure out at first, especially since you have to calculate the quarry ability differently.

I did the math for how it would work with my optimized 8th-level Elven Ranger(22 Dex, 16 Wis).

Hawk’s Talon = 15.93 DPR
Spikes of the Manticore = 20.63 DPR
Spikes of the Manticore = 16.68 DPR (target with cover or concealment)
Spikes of the Manticore = 12.65 DPR (target with cover and concealment)

SOTM is already better than Hawk's Talon against any enemy not both concealed and covered. And keep in mind that as the Ranger accumulates damage bonuses from enhancement and feats such as lasting frost, the gap between the two will only widen.

Essentially, SOTM and HT seem to be the Encounter versions of Twin Strike and Careful Strike.

 

[Ganadai]

They do scale - they both increase to essentially +2 at paragon & +3 at epic.

Power on you for taking interesting feats, it just seems odd in a thread where you are talking about maxing damage not to take the damage feats. (or maybe it's more important )

Ah nice, didn't realize that. Guess I'll have to adjust some feats.

 

[keterys]

SoTM is only one attack per target, isn't it? (I'll get to my books in a few hours, but so say my notes)

Which makes the comparison a bit moot?

 

[Branduil]

SoTM is only one attack per target, isn't it? (I'll get to my books in a few hours, but so say my notes)

Which makes the comparison a bit moot?

One OR two creatures actually. Which makes it as versatile as any double-attack.

 

[keterys]

Right... but doesn't it say 'one attack per target'? It would be on the attack line itself, not the target line.

 

[Branduil]

Right... but doesn't it say 'one attack per target'? It would be on the attack line itself, not the target line.

Huh, it does... but why would it say "one or two creatures" then? It seems like something is worded badly in this power.

 

[keterys]

No, that's a standard method of doing powers. You can attack one or two creatures. You get one attack if you attack on each... so if there's no second target, no second attack.

Many other ranger powers do not have that restriction so may have both shots on one target.

At least one requires two targets to work at all (boo)

 

[Branduil]

Still, I think SOTM is better than Hawk's Talon in the vast majority of situations. Especially once you get Battlefield Archer and the multiple quarry ability.

 

[mlangsdorf]

Battlefield archer just lets you Designate multiple quarries. You are still limited to apply Quarry damage to a single target per round.

Hawk's Talon has a higher single target damage. SotM gives you the ability to target multiple foes. Pick which one is more important to you.