HD Gone?

[Lanefan]

If monsters no longer have HD, as the news article on the front page suggests, then are their hit points no longer to be randomly determined? Or is "level" intended to straight-up replace HD? Or...what do they have in mind?

I ask because if it's a step towards breaking out a monster's hit point range from its fighting capability and saving throws then I'm all for it. It sounds like saves are already being broken out as "defenses"...a good start. But it's a short step from there to get to:

Hit points: X + AdB (+ LdB)
Fight level: Y

Where X is a set constant for each monster (or each monster level?); A and B are variables e.g. 1d6, 4d10, etc., and L is the monster's class level if it has any. X takes into account things like Con., so if you want to vary the monster's Con. you'd adjust X based on monster level; for ease of use, X could be assumed as wound points. Y indicates the monster attacks as if it was this level of Fighter. Ideally A would always be a small number - 1 would be best - to reduce die rolling and also to give a more variable range. End result: much more flexibility in monster design, as you could get things like:

Tough Featherweight: (something that takes a while to kill but won't hurt them very much...used in dungeon design as a delay)

Hit points: 200 + 1d100
Fight level: 2
(does low damage, has no special abilities, etc.)

Demon of the Glass Jaw: (hit it once or twice and it's gone but boy is it gonna carve you up in the meantime)

Hit points: 15 + 1d12
Fight level: 25
(does lots of damage, has various fancy abilities, etc.)

Thoughts?

Lanefan

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If monsters no longer have HD, as the news article on the front page suggests, then are their hit points no longer to be randomly determined? Or is "level" intended to straight-up replace HD? Or...what do they have in mind?

I ask because if it's a step towards breaking out a monster's hit point range from its fighting capability and saving throws then I'm all for it. It sounds like saves are already being broken out as "defenses"...a good start. But it's a short step from there to get to:

Hit points: X + AdB (+ LdB)
Fight level: Y

Where X is a set constant for each monster (or each monster level?); A and B are variables e.g. 1d6, 4d10, etc., and L is the monster's class level if it has any. X takes into account things like Con., so if you want to vary the monster's Con. you'd adjust X based on monster level; for ease of use, X could be assumed as wound points. Y indicates the monster attacks as if it was this level of Fighter. Ideally A would always be a small number - 1 would be best - to reduce die rolling and also to give a more variable range. End result: much more flexibility in monster design, as you could get things like:

Tough Featherweight: (something that takes a while to kill but won't hurt them very much...used in dungeon design as a delay)

Hit points: 200 + 1d100
Fight level: 2
(does low damage, has no special abilities, etc.)

Demon of the Glass Jaw: (hit it once or twice and it's gone but boy is it gonna carve you up in the meantime)

Hit points: 15 + 1d12
Fight level: 25
(does lots of damage, has various fancy abilities, etc.)

Thoughts?

Lanefan

It might be a bit like you described, but I suspect there is a bit more granularity to it.

I suspect that level mostly affects attacks and defenses and thus the chances for the monster to take a successful action or the PCs to take a successful action against the monster.

A second component (which isn't named yet as far as I know) will probably determine hit points (how long will the monster last) and damage (how long can the players last against it?). I am not sure if these will be spelled out explicitly, or if they will just make two tables for each.

I suspect the second component is not entirely independent from level (I assume total hit points are still proportional to level, but whether its 2 per level or 20 per level is entirely decided by this second component)

Minion/Mook monsters will have a level similar to the PCs, but they will deal little damage and have few hit points. Brutes might have more hit points and deal more damage, and finally "boss-like" monsters (or dragon-like ones? ) have even more.

MORE WILD SPECULATION:
Maybe the two components can be described as level (ranging from 1-30) and weight (ranging from 1-3?)
AC/Defense = 10 + Level + monster specific modifier
Attack = 10 + Level + monster specific modifier
Damage = Weight x 5 + monster specific modifier
Hit Points = Level x Weight x (2 + monster specific modifier)
XP: Level x Weight x 200
Monster specific modifiers is what makes the monsters unique. Spells are not accounted for in this model, since it is so incredibly difficult to describe spell effects in such simple terms as damage.

Level and Weight might be replaced by a more complex formula (in 3rd edition, you couldn't just use level, you would probably need something like Level x 1.5 if you want a "fair" comparison between monsters and PCs)

 

[BryonD]

In the last podcast James asked rhetorically, "What are these hit dice you speak of?".
Doesn't answer your actual question. But I do think the assessment of no hit dice is accurate.

 

[Szatany]

If monsters no longer have HD, as the news article on the front page suggests, then are their hit points no longer to be randomly determined? Or is "level" intended to straight-up replace HD? Or...what do they have in mind?

Why the long face? What could be possibly a good reason to determine monster's HP randomly?

 

[Nifft]

Why the long face? What could be possibly a good reason to determine monster's HP randomly?

So players don't know exactly how dead the monsters are.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Szatany]

So players don't know exactly how dead the monsters are.

Cheers, -- N

....what?
You can guesstimate that in real life anyway by observing your enemy, his wounds and movements. And even if they can decipher monster's actual hp, it doesn't change a thing.

 

[WayneLigon]

Since # of hit dice rarely tracks to how effective or tough the monster is, I see no real reason to keep them. Good idea. Technically, I've already done the same for PC's (everyone gets .75 of the die plus Con Bonus), so why not go all the way?

 

[Nifft]

....what?
You can guesstimate that in real life anyway by observing your enemy, his wounds and movements. And even if they can decipher monster's actual hp, it doesn't change a thing.

Wrong.

I'm quite happy when my players track how much damage they've done to a monster. I'm delighted when they remember (in general terms) how many HP a monster of that type had last time. But I'd be very unhappy if they knew that all critters of that type had exactly the same number of HP, and what that number was.

Why?

Because the players knowing monster HP exactly takes away two things from the DM:
1/ The ability to make a monster last a little longer; and
2/ The ability to make a monster die early.

As a DM, I've used both. Sparingly, sure, but that's not the point.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Vigilance]

What if the monster's hit die, and hit die type, come from its class?

In other words, a Bone Devil that wasn't a skirmisher might have a different hit die type.

 

[Baron Opal]

Yeah, skirmisher is the new "d6", brute is the new "d10" and so on. Level 6 skirmisher translates as HD: 6d6.