HD Gone?

[Paraxis]

I can understand the concern but even without Hit Dice it's easy to replicate the randomness.

First Big Bads should have unique ability scores and items so there Con bonus is in question off the bat.

Second I would just tell my players that just like in 3.5 there was a given number of hit points for each monster. Don't count on it though, I as the DM like to mix things up a bit and will use a random number of hit points for some monsters.

Easy way to make a random number if you want is subtract a number from the given hit points and roll some dice to fill in the difference. Bascily subtract a number 4, 6,8, 10, 12, or 20 based on how many HP it normaly has then roll 2 dice of that type and add.

Example.

Monster X has 28 hit points listed...subtract 6 to get 22+(2d6)= 24-36 hit point range, not far off from the base 28 so shouldn't effect the CR (or whatever it's called now) but keeps the players guessing.

But honesty for most mass battles it's just as easy to use the listed HP on the monster, it's what I think mostly gets done now with the average HP listed in the MM's anyway.

 

[Nifft]

But honesty for most mass battles it's just as easy to use the listed HP on the monster, it's what I think mostly gets done now with the average HP listed in the MM's anyway.

For mass battles, I'd prefer a "group monster" mechanic (like a Mob or Swarm) with a SW Saga damage threshold to indicate death of individual elements.

But either way, mass battle should be only one consideration.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Szatany]

Wrong.
But I'd be very unhappy if they knew that all critters of that type had exactly the same number of HP, and what that number was.

I think you are overreacting. Do you make the same point about (in 3e) every 1st level fighter with 12 Con having exactly 11 hit points? Very unfun? Just please remember that's this is only one creature of maaany, and it's the most basic version, without any advancement, class levels, and whatever 4e offers to customize monsters. On the top of that damage is still random so it's not like you can even predict how many rounds will a fight take.

Because the players knowing monster HP exactly takes away two things from the DM:
1/ The ability to make a monster last a little longer; and
2/ The ability to make a monster die early.

1. How do you make monster last longer anyway? By cheating. So you still can cheat by giving it more HP to begin with.
2. It can always run away, or if that's not your cup of tea (some monsters never run away

As a DM, I've used both. Sparingly, sure, but that's not the point.

Cheers, -- N

Me too, all the time to be honest. And I always used 3e's suggested medium HP value for MM creatures.

What if the monster's hit die, and hit die type, come from its class?
In other words, a Bone Devil that wasn't a skirmisher might have a different hit die type.

You are assuming there are still hit dice, but I like the general idea. If skirmishers get 5 hp/level and brutes 10 hp/level, that's makes designing those creatures easier and they fit better in their respectful roles.

And at the end a question for people who want random HP so the enemies are less predictable. Why aren't you fighting for random ability scores, attack bonuses, saves, etc? That would make them also unpredictable, in some cases even more then simple HP which are close to average with big HP number anyway. A good thing surely?

 

[Nifft]

I think you are overreacting. Do you make the same point about (in 3e) every 1st level fighter with 12 Con having exactly 11 hit points?

Actually, yes. Everything has at least 3 levels. 1st level characters are extinct in my game -- or they're hiding -- whichever it is, the players never play or see them.

1. How do you make monster last longer anyway? By cheating. So you still can cheat by giving it more HP to begin with.

No. There's a huge difference between cheating that the players know about and fudging that they are never aware of. It's only a matter of perception, but there's a world of difference in terms of how the players feel about it.

I want to allow them to know in general terms how tough a critter is likely to be, so they can plan intelligently, but I also want to be able to fudge. Random HP allow both.

The only reason to have fixed HP would be if combat were competitive -- as it is in D&D Minis. But IMHO D&D combat is not competitive -- it's cooperative.

Me too, all the time to be honest. And I always used 3e's suggested medium HP value for MM creatures.

I use the suggested mediums sometimes, but it's so easy to roll dice on the computer, I often just generate a sorted array of HP for many like critters.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifft]

What if the monster's hit die, and hit die type, come from its class?

In other words, a Bone Devil that wasn't a skirmisher might have a different hit die type.

I'd buy that, and it's cool idea.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Szatany]

Monster X has 28 hit points listed...subtract 6 to get 22+(2d6)= 24-36 hit point range, not far off from the base 28 so shouldn't effect the CR (or whatever it's called now) but keeps the players guessing.

Or just add some hit points and increase monster's XP value. Can't be simpler than that.

 

[Zurai]

And even if they can decipher monster's actual hp, it doesn't change a thing.

Incorrect. In addition to Nifft's statements, players with precise knowledge of their enemy's remaining health can make a number of tactical changes that they couldn't otherwise. Some examples: Choosing to power attack for a lesser or greater amount, or using a power that is based off remaining health (such as Power Word: Kill or Finishing Move). There's a reason that the ability to know the precise amount of health remaining on enemies is granted only by a high level spell in 3.5.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I'm not too worried about it one way or the other.

Identical HP totals make it easy for me to keep track of higher #s of monsters, and if players get to good at predicting them, I can just roll a dice before the encounter and add plus or minus 5 HP.

 

[Warbringer]

Must admit, in all the years playing 3.x, I don't think I rolled any monster hps but used the MMs... didn't notice any issues with players...

then again I use wound tokens on the base of minis to represent damage

 

[Li Shenron]

If they don't use HD anymore, at least I hope they provide monsters with a HP range, and not just a fixed value.

So players don't know exactly how dead the monsters are.

Cheers, -- N

If the "bloodied" rule applies to all creatures (which I hope not, but I'm quite sure it does), soon we'll learn to figure it out quite easily by counting how much damage the monster was dealt before it got blooded.