Heal check in combat

[Kingreaper]

Not with smelling salts.

At that point "I place the smelling salts in front of his face as quickly as possible" is clearly a minor action.

"I place the smelling salts in front of his face, while keeping my guard up, so I don't get attacked" could, potentially, be a standard action.

 

[KarinsDad]

At that point "I place the smelling salts in front of his face as quickly as possible" is clearly a minor action.

Clearly? It depends on whether you consider minor to be "real world minor" or minor as in the D&D definition of a simple enabling action leading to the exciting actions. In this case, the real gain here is waking the PC up and restoring hit points, so First Aid is not so much an enabling action as the actual exciting action of the turn. It wouldn't be minor. A moment ago, you were stating that plausible First Aid would take 5 rounds. Now, it's a minor action.

PS. Smelling salts have been around since Roman times, so having them as part of a normal first aid kit seems reasonable in a medieval timeframe (assuming someone is running a medieval campaign). Course, that should require a minor action to get the first aid kit out to use it.

"I place the smelling salts in front of his face, while keeping my guard up, so I don't get attacked" could, potentially, be a standard action.

Potentially. But, that doesn't allow for doing the minor First Aid action you mention above with the OAs.

Hence, the reason I don't look for flavor explanations or rationales for the rules as written. It leads down rabbit holes that aren't really worth exploring.

 

[Kingreaper]

Clearly? It depends on whether you consider minor to be "real world minor" or minor as in the D&D definition of a simple enabling action leading to the exciting actions. In this case, the real gain here is waking the PC up and restoring hit points, so First Aid is not so much an enabling action as the actual exciting action of the turn. It wouldn't be minor. A moment ago, you were stating that plausible First Aid would take 5 rounds. Now, it's a minor action.

Yes, because smelling salts aren't what I think of as first aid.

What I think of as first aid is things like bandaging, applying ointments, checking wounds, washing wounds, etc.

Waving smelling salts is like feeding someone a potion. Which IIRC, is a minor action.

Potentially. But, that doesn't allow for doing the minor First Aid action you mention above with the OAs.

No, it doesn't. But I'm not trying to prove that the flavour justifies the rules, simply that standard action+OA is no more reasonable than standard action without OA

Hence, the reason I don't look for flavor explanations or rationales for the rules as written. It leads down rabbit holes that aren't really worth exploring.

I may have misunderstood what position you were arguing for. I got the impression (wrongly?) that you were arguing for standard action +OAs

 

[moxcamel]

7th Sea mayhap?

Bingo! LOL thanks, I shall sleep tonight.

 

[DracoSuave]

Bingo! LOL thanks, I shall sleep tonight.

7th Sea basically repurposed the L5R system while changing it ever so slightly to fit its own needs.

 

[moxcamel]

7th Sea basically repurposed the L5R system while changing it ever so slightly to fit its own needs.

Yeah, I should have remembered they were by the same publisher, duh!

Shame 7S isn't published anymore. We didn't play a lot, but we had a good time every time we did.

 

[KarinsDad]

I may have misunderstood what position you were arguing for. I got the impression (wrongly?) that you were arguing for standard action +OAs

I was. I think Standard Action + OAs is what is reasonable both from a plausibility standpoint and from a balance standpoint. As is, it's getting really really hard to challenge PCs anymore without upping the level of the foes due to the sheer volume of potent powers, feats and synergies, the only bone thrown towards monsters in the last year or so was the increased monster damage one.

But, I don't feel strongly enough about First Aid to come up with a flavor rationale to convince my players of a house rule. The rule as written is fine and not worth changing.

I just happen to find it interesting how many people write flavor rationales to explain why the rules work the way they do. If the rule was that First Aid provokes OAs, people would write down rationales in the exact opposite direction explaining why that makes sense.

 

[Aulirophile]

Waving smelling salts is like feeding someone a potion. Which IIRC, is a minor action.

Standard to feed a potion to someone else, minor to drink it yourself.

 

[DracoSuave]

I just happen to find it interesting how many people write flavor rationales to explain why the rules work the way they do. If the rule was that First Aid provokes OAs, people would write down rationales in the exact opposite direction explaining why that makes sense.

That's why I don't support nerfing a ruleset based on flavor alone. Flavor is subjective, and not only that, it's also contextual. Your Power Attack is not the same as my Power Attack. So changing how my Power Attack works just because you can't picture yours working as written is problematic.

To me, it just smacks of the wrong kind of laziness. If it were unbalanced or broken as is, then by all means fix it. If you need to change it to make some aspect of the entire campaign coherent (Forbidding divine powers in Dark Sun, for instance), then by all means.

In this case, it's neither. It's because one interpretation of how the skill might work in a vacuum doesn't jive with how the mechanics work; given the rules are by necessity abstractions, I can see this is counter-productive to player agency.