D&D 5E Healing and Negative HP

[Sentinel22]

This is longwinded so the tldr; "Do I ignore massive amounts of negative HP, unless it outright kills someone, and have a healing potion starts them back in the positive from 0 HP?"

Fairly new DM (a year and change) currently playing Storm's King Thunder, after the Starter Set and a home-brew bridge between the two.

I lectured my players several times that they will encounter situations that are run or die in SKT. Also, the player in question is a vet with many character deaths and is totally prepared to die an epic death (if it comes to that), so this isn't a question of nerfing anything, I just haven't dealt with high levels of damage and want to be fair in what might be a fatal turn of events.

I allow (like most DM's it seems) players to administer Potions of Healing to characters who are down as an action. However in the last two campaigns before SKT the dip below zero hit points has been so minimal I treated all downed players as "at zero" regardless if it was -10 or whatever, had them make their saving throws, and usually they roll well and recover, or are brought back to the positive from a Potion of Healing.

My issue is this; They came across the Frost Giant "pirates" raiding Fireshear and were holding their own until one of players (Barbarian) sustained 3 hits X 25 dmg(a regular hit and a crit) amounting to 75 damage. He had eleven hit points left, bringing him to -64. His hit point max is 71.

While close, I understand he is not instantly killed, and needed to start making death saving throws, on the next turn (which he did and rolled a save, and then a 1... so the count is 1:2).

We had to break for the week so left it at a cliffhanger.

However, do I ignore the -64 HP unless his fallen body takes a hit, and treat him as if at 0 HP if someone administers a healing position? PHB says that "If damage reduces you to zero hit points and fails to kill you, you fall unconcious. This unconsciousness ends if you regain any hit points."

So if the ranger makes the -64 HP Barbarian chug a healing potion and rolls measly 8 HP, he is now conscious and doesn't have to make death saves... but should he have 8 HP or -56 HP?

Thanks in advance!

 

[jaelis]

In the 5e rules, there are no negative hit points. If you take enough damage to bring you to zero or lower, then you have zero hp (unless you die outright). If you then get 8 hp of healing, you are at +8.

 

[Elon Tusk]

Yes and 8.

 

[Oofta]

There are no negative HP in 5E. That doesn't mean it's not easy to kill a character if you want.

Characters can only fail 3 death saves, taking damage while at 0 counts as a death save failure. Critical hits add two failures to death saves. Attacking someone that is unconscious has advantage. If the attacker is within 5 feet it is always a critical hit.

 

[Sadras]

Ah damn ninja'd by @Oofta

My issue is this; They came across the Frost Giant "pirates" raiding Fireshear and were holding their own until one of players (Barbarian) sustained 3 hits X 25 dmg(a regular hit and a crit) amounting to 75 damage. He had eleven hit points left, bringing him to -64. His hit point max is 71.

While close, I understand he is not instantly killed, and needed to start making death saving throws, on the next turn (which he did and rolled a save, and then a 1... so the count is 1:2).

We had to break for the week so left it at a cliffhanger.

You might want to tell the player before the session that his character is dead to give him/her enough time to draw up a new character. Refer to PHB page 197 under Damage at 0 Hit Points

Scenario A
He has 11 hit points.
He takes 25 damage (normal hit) and ends up unconscious.
He takes another 50 damage (critical hit) and gains 2 failed death save (PHB page 197)
He rolls his first death saving throw and rolls a 1, gaining 2 failed death saves (4 cumulative)
4 failed death saves = death.

Scenario B
He has 11 hit points.
He takes 50 damage (critical hit) and ends up unconscious.
He takes another 25 damage (critical hit) and gains 1 failed death save (PHB page 197)
He rolls his first death saving throw and rolls a 1, gaining 2 failed death saves (3 cumulative)
3 failed death saves = death.

Sorry.

EDIT: Unless ofcourse you want to rule that the attacks happened simultaneously, although it is standard practice that attacks are sequential, but you're the DM.

 

[Sentinel22]

In the 5e rules, there are no negative hit points. If you take enough damage to bring you to zero or lower, then you have zero hp (unless you die outright). If you then get 8 hp of healing, you are at +8.

Yes and 8.

OK got it. Thanks!

There are no negative HP in 5E. That doesn't mean it's not easy to kill a character if you want.

Characters can only fail 3 death saves, taking damage while at 0 counts as a death save failure. Critical hits add two failures to death saves. Attacking someone that is unconscious has advantage. If the attacker is within 5 feet it is always a critical hit.

I don't WANT to kill any characters but I get what you are saying. This is just a skirmish over an artifact, however if I ever run Curse of Strahd I WILL run Strahd and the undead trying to kill characters 100%. So in that case just keep track of attacks that hit = failed death throws. Got it.

 

[Sentinel22]

You might want to tell the player before the session that his character is dead to give him/her enough time to draw up a new character. Refer to PHB page 197 under Damage at 0 Hit Points

Scenario A
He has 11 hit points.
He takes 25 damage (normal hit) and ends up unconscious.
He takes another 50 damage (critical hit) and gains 2 failed death save (PHB page 197)
He rolls his first death saving throw and rolls a 1, gaining 2 failed death saves (4 cumulative)
4 failed death saves = death.

Scenario B
He has 11 hit points.
He takes 50 damage (critical hit) and ends up unconscious.
He takes another 25 damage (critical hit) and gains 1 failed death save (PHB page 197)
He rolls his first death saving throw and rolls a 1, gaining 2 failed death saves (3 cumulative)
3 failed death saves = death.

Sorry.

EDIT: Unless ofcourse you want to rule that the attacks happened simultaneously, although it is standard practice that attacks are sequential, but you're the DM.

OK, I follow your math of how death occurred in both A and B, just a matter of which hit was a crit is the difference between 3-4 fails. But I was erroneously focusing on the grand total of damage = instant death, not "any subsequent damage taken is a death fail, and a crit is two."

ALSO I usually roll all my dice at the same time (including damage if i don't use the average for monsters)to speed things up so it's tough to call which attack happened first, so I would err to scenario B. But if I knew it was two death fails I would have announced that and hopefully other players would have been quicker to come to his aid knowing how grave it was.

As a hopefully humble new DM I would never punish the players for my mistake. I won't retcon the death as already happened, but restate the rules now that I understand them better and hope they make good choices in the next few rounds to save him and get out, and use it as a learning experience for all.

 

[Oofta]

I don't WANT to kill any characters but I get what you are saying. This is just a skirmish over an artifact, however if I ever run Curse of Strahd I WILL run Strahd and the undead trying to kill characters 100%. So in that case just keep track of attacks that hit = failed death throws. Got it.

One of the things you have to decide is how deadly you want your campaign to be. For example my campaign is based on Norse mythology where even gods (Baldur) can die. It's difficult if not impossible to raise someone from the dead. Revivify works because the soul hasn't had a chance to get to the final resting place but otherwise it's not simple.

So what's going to be more fun for you and your group? The pirate standing over an unconscious ally saying "Surrender or he dies arrgghhh!" Or does the pirate just lop off his head? Both can be enjoyable, although the latter will mean many people go through multiple characters (though there's no guarantee the downed PC survives this anyway).

Personally I base it on NPC motivations - some will move on to the next threat, some will double tap to kill, animals and some monsters may grapple and drag off unconscious PCs.

Have fun!

 

[jaelis]

ALSO I usually roll all my dice at the same time (including damage if i don't use the average for monsters)to speed things up so it's tough to call which attack happened first, so I would err to scenario B. But if I knew it was two death fails I would have announced that and hopefully other players would have been quicker to come to his aid knowing how grave it was.

If you are rolling your attacks simultaneously, then I would apply the damage simultaneously too. Because if you'd attack sequentially, then the character would be down after the first hit so probably the giant would have attacked someone else with the second.

 

[Oofta]

... ALSO I usually roll all my dice at the same time ...

I use color coded dice both when I DM and when I play. So my attacks are always red, white and then blue. That way if the hit from my white die takes the target to 0 I can decide whether to attack someone else with blue or use it to grapple instead of attacking (ignoring damage die) or whatever.

Besides, it gives me an excuse to have more dice, and that's always a bonus. Thank goodness for pound o' dice.