Healing Fully With Rest - Is It Really That Big of a Deal?

[BobTheNob]

I kinda like the idea of what has been put forward as what it is. I dont like when everything "stalls" because players cant get enough healing, or even worse when the cleric is made to give up all coolness to compensate for the loss. What they have put forward gets around these hurdles.

However, I do empathize with the other camp on this issue as well. Some degree of consequence is part of campaign.

What I would like to see is this sort of "quick recovery" results in semi-permanent damage. That when you use a quick heal of ANY kind (short rest hit dice, extended rest heals, cleric cures, healing pots) that a certain proportion is in the form of permanent hit point damage, so there is a depleting roof you can heal to. Then, the "permanent" damage is what takes the protracted rest to recover from.

On the one hand it gives the HP required to keep the adventure moving forward without taxing the poor old cleric, but also dictates that there are limits which will need to be addressed at some stage.

 

[FireLance]

From the gameplay perspective, I think it is really two issues:

1. Do you want hit point resources to refresh at the same rate as spells and other character resources?

2. Do you want an option for an intermediate resource refresh that is shorter than a long rest?

Traditionally, spells and most other abilities refreshed on a daily basis (although we did get the occasional X times per week ability such as the paladin's cure disease) while the natural hit point refresh rate was much slower. Apart from convention, of course, there is no particular reason why spells need to refresh more quickly than hit points. Arguably, you could define a long rest as a week - enough to make recovery to full hit points plausible - and only allow spells and other abilities to be regained after a week-long rest as well.

The next question then comes into play. Whether you define a long rest as one week or one day, do you then want the option for an "intermediate" rest (maybe one hour for one-day long rest, or one day for a one-week long rest) that allows you to recover some (but not all) spells and some (but not all) hit points?

After all, the willy-nilly replenishment of spells after a single night's rest is probably as much or more of a problem for survival or resource-intensive games as the willy-nilly replenishment of hit points.

 

[Rogue Agent]

One of the most common complaints I've been seeing about the playtest is that player characters heal completely after an 8 hour rest. I'm just curious why people think this is such a bad thing.

If I had to summarize my problems with 4E into three general bullet points, those bullet points would be:

(1) The gameplay of D&D from 1974 thru 2008 was altered, with the D&D trademark being applied to a fundamentally different fantasy RPG.

(2) Dissociated mechanics.

(3) A complete refocusing of the game on tactical encounters only, instead of a balanced approach featuring both tactical and strategic gameplay.

Looking at the healing mechanics in the D&D Next playtest document, they manage to hit all three of these bullet points. (It hits #1 fairly lightly from a mechanical standpoint, but the decision to take a legacy term like "hit dice" and apply it to a completely different mechanic in an explicit attempt to appeal to nostalgia reflects a similar attitude in 4E that I didn't like.)

 

[Stalker0]

If you've ever played a game where the PCs carried wounds around, you would see why it's a big deal. It makes the game so much more engaging and believable. To take that tool out of the DM's hands by handing a player an ability that says their character can never be damaged in any lasting way is crippling.

I'm going to use the dial argument again on this one. There is no reason that the system can't include a few options for gritty settings like this.

But when choosing the default, I would rather the default fit the way most people play. I personally believe (but am happy to change mind if evidence is presented), but most people use whatever resources are at their disposal to heal to full before every combat unless they have no alternative.

If that is true, then I want the baseline to reflect that desire, and allow for decently strong nonmagical healing. Once the baseline is set, I completely welcome a suite of customization that allow for superhero fantasy or dark and gritty.

 

[Falling Icicle]

What if there was an optional rule that certain injuries (like critical hits or hits that take a character below 0) could inflict "wounds," special injuries that were more difficult to heal and could even leave permanent scars or disabilities?

 

[Scars Unseen]

What if there was an optional rule that certain injuries (like critical hits or hits that take a character below 0) could inflict "wounds," special injuries that were more difficult to heal and could even leave permanent scars or disabilities?

I was thinking something similar, mostly because HP is so abstract and represents so many things that I can't even say that the rest-to-replenish feature doesn't make sense. I didn't play 4E, but I think it has a status called "bloodied" that would be a starting point. Or maybe something like FATE's Consequences. Basically make HP a purely stress/momentum thing and then have different Consequences for different combat events, with hitting 0 HP giving the Consequence of On Death's Door.

This isn't just a resource thing either. How disappointing it must be to score a critical hit and have the narrative representation of that feat be "Well that orc is really out of breath from parrying that last strike."

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

Being fully healed after a nights rest means one of two things in regards to setting:

1. That people within the setting never get seriously hurt for more than a day, which looks nothing like the world I'm familiar with.

2. That the rules for PCs are not in any way representative of injury within the setting.

For the most part, even simulationists like myself don't need a perfect simulation. But the core rules need to at least respect reality enough to allow suspension of disbelief.

The description of Hit Points describes dropping below 0 as taking a significant wound. I'm cool with that. But that wound should come with penalties and take time to heal. Say, disadvantage on all checks, saves, and attacks and 2d6 days to heal (adjustable to taste).

Similarly, hit points, at some point, start to represent cuts, bruises, and fatigue. Whereas Hit Dice seem to represent your bodies ability to heal itself. Thus, a long rest should give you your hit dice back and allow you to use them, but nothing more.

This doesn't perfectly represent reality, but it's a solid nod to it while remaining friendly and simple.

 

[Walking Dad]

If you've ever played a game where the PCs carried wounds around, you would see why it's a big deal. ...

I had it. Festering wounds, rolling to avoid loosing a limb. Not my style of play and I don't see the need to make it the default instead of an option.

BTW, in 4e encounters feel very different is character have few remaining Healing Surges (something akin to 5e HD), even if they are normally at full health.

 

[Walking Dad]

...
After all, the willy-nilly replenishment of spells after a single night's rest is probably as much or more of a problem for survival or resource-intensive games as the willy-nilly replenishment of hit points.

This! As long there are healing spells and characters able to cast them around, longterm survival doesn't depend on HP (recovery).

 

[CleverNickName]

Is it just the narrative and believability issues, or do you have any gameplay reasons for being against it?[/b]

Not to split hairs or anything, but narrative and believability *are* gameplay issues.

To answer your question: no, I do not think it is that big of a deal. I can easily houserule it to be any length of time I want. (I'm thinking 24 hours, minimum...)