Healing Potions seem woeful

[Colawley]

That's kind-of the point, I think.

Before level 5, it's more advantageous to use the potion. After level 5 or whatever, you start using healing potion Mk II, instead of the original. Keeps the cost/benefit ratio about right.

Not to say that you can't keep some of the older ones for an emergency -- 10 hps still gets you on your feet if you've been knocked below 0 hp.

Yes but can you really see a level 7 character dropping 1000gp for a single healing potion that heals 25hp, gives an extra save, but still costs a healing surge? Especially when a single surge at that level is going to probably be more then the 25hp you get from the potion.

Surges are the main form of healing in 4E, so every one counts when you are in between extended rests.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Yes but can you really see a level 7 character dropping 1000gp for a single healing potion that heals 25hp, gives an extra save, but still costs a healing surge? Especially when a single surge at that level is going to probably be more then the 25hp you get from the potion.

Surges are the main form of healing in 4E, so every one counts when you are in between extended rests.

Exactly!!

 

[Boarstorm]

Yes but can you really see a level 7 character dropping 1000gp for a single healing potion that heals 25hp, gives an extra save, but still costs a healing surge? Especially when a single surge at that level is going to probably be more then the 25hp you get from the potion.

Yes, I do.

If you're in a position to NEED that healing potion, 1000g is money well spent. Regain 25 hit points after I've already blown my second wind? AND a chance to reroll the save against that ongoing fire damage? Yes, please!

Edit: What I _don't_ see is that level 7 character carrying around a bandoleer of 40 of them -- and that's a GOOD thing, imo.

 

[Colawley]

I will concede the point of having them spend a surge to keep PCs from abusing them, I still think they should have used something other then a flat value of HP healed for them though. I mean they could have used something like your surge value + some number and still make it spend a surge. This would make it more useful to scale it for all levels, you would just have to raise the price from 50gp to something a little higher.

 

[helium3]

Yes but can you really see a level 7 character dropping 1000gp for a single healing potion that heals 25hp, gives an extra save, but still costs a healing surge? Especially when a single surge at that level is going to probably be more then the 25hp you get from the potion.

Surges are the main form of healing in 4E, so every one counts when you are in between extended rests.

Yeah, uhhhh . . . healing surges for 10th level characters are in the range of 15 to 20 points. 25 hit points from a potion at level 7 is a big deal.

I think people should try this out before making house rules. It's entirely possible that once you're actually playing 4E, you'll discover that an extra 10 hit points from burning a healing surge is totally worth 50 gp.

 

[Torquin Trebuchet]

It seems like folks are still thinking of healing potions 3.0 style - where you needed to use them to heal up between combats.

In 4.0, there is no need to drink a potion out of combat, and it would be extremely wasteful to do so. Out of combat you just spend your surges normally (or, if you want to spend a bit more time, with your clerics help). In combat however, you are not allowed to spend a surge anytime you want to - but a healing potion gives you the ability to do so. This is a very valuable ability.

If you make healing potions scale, high level characters will be able to carry dozens of 50gp potions, healing themselves at will and seriously changing the dynamics of combat. If you make them not cost a healing surge, again, high level characters will have an incentive to carry dozens of cheap potions and fully heal themselves whenever they have 10 rounds or so of privacy (which is not always hard to come by, even in combat, at high levels).

I think healing potions have been very well thought out, and I would encourage players to play-test them for a while before jumping into house rules.

 

[Blackeagle]

Especially when a single surge at that level is going to probably be more then the 25hp you get from the potion.

100+ hit points are not going to be common at 7th level. The only way you can do that is to max out con and take toughness for virtually every feat.

 

[Colawley]

Yeah, uhhhh . . . healing surges for 10th level characters are in the range of 15 to 20 points. 25 hit points from a potion at level 7 is a big deal.

I think people should try this out before making house rules. It's entirely possible that once you're actually playing 4E, you'll discover that an extra 10 hit points from burning a healing surge is totally worth 50 gp.

Doh! Need to check my math next time before hitting the submit button.

 

[Boarstorm]

... you would just have to raise the price from 50gp to something a little higher.

A quick point: I definitely agree that a fixed amount of healing seems... strange. Maybe I just like rolling d8s.

But the way the economy is designed (with it's super-duper inflation), any single fixed price for an item that would be useful at all levels is inherently broken.

If it's in the price range of a low-level character, high level characters can buy them by the truckload with impunity. If you price them too high, they're out of reach of low-level PCs.

Edit: Grrr. Ninjas. BTW -- does it take everyone like 4 minutes for a reply to post after you hit the button, or is it just my ISP?

 

[Blackeagle]

I will concede the point of having them spend a surge to keep PCs from abusing them, I still think they should have used something other then a flat value of HP healed for them though. I mean they could have used something like your surge value + some number and still make it spend a surge.

Drinking a potion is a minor action.
50 gp is chump change compared to character wealth at higher levels

If you let potions scale, then the interaction between these two effectively turns healing surges from a daily resource to an encounter resource. A character can just quaff healing potions every round if he needs to, allowing him to burn through all his healing surges in a single encounter. The whole point of the healing surge/second wind system is to limit the number of surges that can be used in a single encounter, so you don't completely deplete your healing abilities in a single fight.

This would make it more useful to scale it for all levels, you would just have to raise the price from 50gp to something a little higher.

The problem is the treasure curve in 4e is so steep that there's no possible compromise value. Any value that would make the cost of a scaling healing potion matter to an epic tier character would make it unaffordable to a heroic tier character.