Health and Injury Systems

[Nim]

So: Hitpoints. Vitality and Wounds. Reserve Points. Discrete-injury variants. Massive Damage variants. Wound penalties. Altered non-lethal damage rules. Stress points.

Has anyone taken all of the various wound/injury systems and compared them side by side, with some analysis of what sort of play style and 'feel' each one creates? Something that talks about the results of using one versus another?

 

[0-hr]

In d20 Starwars, you have Vitality (increases like hit points) and Wounds (which is pretty much always equal to your CON), with critical hits going direct to wounds. A friend summed up the game effect by saying

"In d20SW, unlike D&D, characters usually die with a surprised look on their face."

It does make every fight nerve-wracking. As a DM, it is stressful due to the lack of Raise Dead in the genre. I roll in the open and there have been meany occassions where I wish I could fudge a critical to make it a tad less lethal.

 

[Nim]

Heh. I've read VP/W systems, but never actually played one. And there are plenty of other variant damage rules out there too. S'why I'm hoping to find someplace where someone compared the pros and cons and consequences of all of them

Really, there are enough different wound systems that someone could do a medium-size book just presenting all of the various suggestions and options different games have tried.

 

[GlassJaw]

I've done a comparison of sorts (with the guidance of Wulf) but nothing in an "official" capacity. My findings led me to settle on the variant ruleset you see in my sig.

 

[Nim]

*nod* Read that, and it looked pretty good.

I'm figuring there's no One True Damage System. It depends on the style of game you're wanting to run. If someone gave it some careful thought, a 'for this sort of feel, use this sort of system' list could be pretty popular.

And actually...well, let's start with the more basic question. How many approaches ARE there?

There's the basic hit point system. There's the Vitality/Wounds system. There's the M&M damage save system, which some folks seem to like. And as a side-issue on a HP or VP system, the approach to massive damage can make a big difference.

What other 'fundamentally different' styles of damage rules are being used in d20 games, or is it mostly variations on those?

 

[genshou]

I'd say it's mostly variations on those. Grim n' Gritty uses a nice system that I'd like to get my hands on, but IIRC it's basically VP/WP without the VP.

Most systems make only slight changes to the D&D/d20 Modern system, such as alterations to massive damage, or how nonlethal combat works.

I've never played Alternity, but it had an interesting system for determining damage. A bit too much book-keeping even for me, but interesting nonetheless.

I too have yet to see a system that is the One True Damage System. For me it usually ends up being my VP/WP variation or standard D&D rules with d20 Modern's massive damage threshold and my own slight variation on nonlethal damage. They fit well with my gaming style. I'm not realistic enough to use a basic HP=Con system (too harsh on the PCs IMO).

 

[Desdichado]

I'm figuring there's no One True Damage System. It depends on the style of game you're wanting to run. If someone gave it some careful thought, a 'for this sort of feel, use this sort of system' list could be pretty popular.

I haven't, but I'm familiar with several. I think I've settled on "Three True Damage Systems" depending on what I want to emulate, but it's not so much that the three I settled on are necessarily better than the alternatives, but that I don't care to learn any more damage systems at this point. So I use HP, VP/WP or GrimNGritty HP, depending on the genre of game I'm running. I'd rather change those than much around with the Massive Damage threshold; I'd just as soon ignore Massive Damage altogether.

I'm also interested in the Damage Save from M&M, Blue Rose and True20, but I don't have much experience with it, only having used it once in a one-shot.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

I can't recall for sure offhand, but WP/VP systems change the sneak attack damage to just 1 Wound Point per number of sneak attack dice. For instance, a rogue with sneak attack doing 2d6 points of damage would cause the victim to lose 2 Wound Points, right? What about Vitality? Does the rogue take away the full 2d6 from Vitality?

Also, I seem to recall that the Toughness feat gives +3 Wound Points in this system. What about Improved Toughness? Would it add +1 Wound Point per level?

 

[GlassJaw]

I can't recall for sure offhand, but WP/VP systems change the sneak attack damage to just 1 Wound Point per number of sneak attack dice. For instance, a rogue with sneak attack doing 2d6 points of damage would cause the victim to lose 2 Wound Points, right? What about Vitality? Does the rogue take away the full 2d6 from Vitality?

That's an option (and suggested in UA IIRC) but isn't 100% necessary. In Star Wars, sneak attack isn't changed at all (but there are very classes that grant SA damage).

You mentioned one of the problems with changing how sneak attack works in the VP/WP system. Another problem is that if SA damage inflicts both VP and WP damage, what happens if the target has very few VP remaining and the SA damage exceeds them? Does the target take more WP damage?

SA damage was one of the biggest problems I struggled with in my GT variant ruleset. I decided to make sneak attack just that, a sneak attack. SA only applies during a surprise round but in a surprise round, all damage is applied to both VP and WP. You don't get sneak attack from attacked a flat-footed target or while flanking. It makes sneak attack very powerful but extremely specific as to when you can use it.

Also bear in mind that this was written for use with Grim Tales and in GT, you can't get any sneak attack damage until you are at least 5th level.

Also, I seem to recall that the Toughness feat gives +3 Wound Points in this system. What about Improved Toughness? Would it add +1 Wound Point per level?

Yes, and that seems logical, but perhaps a bit too powerful. I probably wouldn't allow Imp Toughness in my game.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Thanks, Glassjaw!