Heavy Armor underwater

[Oryan77]

If a character has a swim speed then he does not need to make a swim check, correct?

But if he is wearing medium or heavy armor, the swim description says that armor checks & encumbrance is doubled. By encumbrance, does that mean the penalty to swim speed is twice as low as normal? So if the speed is 30ft without armor, 20ft with the armor, is it 10ft underwater? I'm not really sure what the swim description is referring to when it mentions encumbrance penalty. I'm assuming it's talking about "Encumbrance by Armor" and not by "weight" under pg 161 of the PHB.

 

[Quartz]

Don't think 'swim' think 'walking on the sea floor'.

 

[MarkB]

Yes, it is the Armour Check Penalty (or Encumbrance Penalty if encumbered purely by weight, not armour) which is doubled. So for a character wearing half-plate armour and a heavy shield, who does not have a Swim speed and must make Swim checks when underwater, his normal armour check penalty of -9 (-7 for the armour, plus -2 for the shield) is doubled to a -18 penalty to his Swim checks.

 

[Stalker0]

doesn't a swim speed just give you a big bonus to swim checks and lket you take 10?

 

[MarkB]

doesn't a swim speed just give you a big bonus to swim checks and lket you take 10?

From the Swim skill description in the SRD:

A creature with a swim speed can move through water at its indicated speed without making Swim checks. It gains a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform a special action or avoid a hazard. The creature always can choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered when swimming. Such a creature can use the run action while swimming, provided that it swims in a straight line.

So having a swim speed means you don't have to make Swim checks for normal movement, but you might still have to make them to accomplish other things, though with a +8 bonus.

 

[Oryan77]

The way I read it, doesn't it still double an armor weight penalty even with a swim speed? With a swim speed, the armor will still lower that speed down from 30 to 20. but is that still doubled since it's underwater?

 

[MarkB]

The way I read it, doesn't it still double an armor weight penalty even with a swim speed? With a swim speed, the armor will still lower that speed down from 30 to 20. but is that still doubled since it's underwater?

No, because the reduction in speed is not defined as a penalty. Therefore, for it to be doubled too, it would have to be specifically mentioned, and it isn't.

 

[Oryan77]

No, because the reduction in speed is not defined as a penalty. Therefore, for it to be doubled too, it would have to be specifically mentioned, and it isn't.

Ah yeah, I see it now. I kept thinking "swim check" was part of the speed penalty even with a swim speed. I wasn't thinking about the fact you don't need to make movement swim checks if you have a swim speed. It even says, "they can move through the water at their indicated speed". Duh.

My only question is this....

I keep reading info for underwater races saying they don't like to wear heavy plate type armor because it's a hassle. But if you have a swim speed, the only hassle I see is the 10ft lower speed. I can't find any reason why a PC wouldn't wear his full plate armor underwater when he has a swim speed. It seems silly to me imagining a knight in full plate swimming underwater. What am I overlooking here? What would make the PC say, "I can't swim in this armor, I need to get something I can use underwater"?

 

[Len]

Which races are you talking about? I checked a few of them in the MM and I don't see any such comment for sahuagin, kuo-toa or locathah.

 

[MarkB]

Ah yeah, I see it now. I kept thinking "swim check" was part of the speed penalty even with a swim speed. I wasn't thinking about the fact you don't need to make movement swim checks if you have a swim speed. It even says, "they can move through the water at their indicated speed". Duh.

My only question is this....

I keep reading info for underwater races saying they don't like to wear heavy plate type armor because it's a hassle. But if you have a swim speed, the only hassle I see is the 10ft lower speed. I can't find any reason why a PC wouldn't wear his full plate armor underwater when he has a swim speed. It seems silly to me imagining a knight in full plate swimming underwater. What am I overlooking here? What would make the PC say, "I can't swim in this armor, I need to get something I can use underwater"?

Well, like I said earlier, a Swim speed just means you don't need to make Swim checks for normal movement. Any other Swim check (such as to perform a special action, avoid a hazard, etc.) still requires a Swim check, which is still taken at double armour-check penalty (though with a +8 bonus from having a Swim speed).