Hellcat and grappling

[dcollins]

No. I believe round 2 looks exactly like round 1.

I'll point out that errata took away the Improved Grab "automatic hit" language, so even while holding someone the cat does need to roll for its bite attack.

Monster FAQ v01302003, p. 5:

How often can a tiger use its rake attack? Suppose it hits with its first claw attack. It can then make two rake attacks, right? Can it make two more rake attacks if it gets a hold with its other claw? And can it then make two more rake attacks if it gets a hold with its bite? Or can rake attacks be used only in the first round?

A tiger, leopard, or lion must either pounce on or grapple a foe (usually through its improved grab ability) before it can rake.
If the animal pounces, it makes five melee attacks the same round: claw/claw/bite/rake/rake. If it grabs, it must establish a hold before it can rake. (Most big cats can use the improved grab ability only with their bite attacks, not with their claws. The tiger, which is bigger and nastier than most big cats, can use either its bite or its claws. It is possible for a lion or leopard to grab and hold prey with its claws as well, but it must use the regular grappling rules to do so.) The animal can rake twice if it establishes a hold, regardless of whether or not it used improved grab to do so. If it begins its turn with an opponent in its grasp, it can also rake twice. In any case, the animal gets only two rake attacks per round, no matter how many times it maintains or establishes a hold during that round.

 

[Kershek]

Ok, then is it true that, as long as the hellcat maintains the hold, it gets automatic bite damage without a roll, then?

 

[Dash Dannigan]

In the Main FAQ under improved grab and dealing damage in a grapple:

If the creature begins its turn with an opponent in its grasp, the creature can just hold on or it can attempt another grappling check. If it elects to grapple again and it succeeds, the natural weapon the attacker used in the improved grab deals normal damage on the opponent.

So the hellcat has the option to either make two claw attacks and 2 rake attacks or two grappling checks to deal bite damage and 2 rake attacks.

Rake (Ex): A hellcat can make two rake attacks (+12 melee) against a held creature with its hind legs for 1d4+3 damage each.

I don't think the hellcat can rake more than twice in a round. The creature is held during the round so you get 2 rake attacks. That's all it says. Now if it said each time the bite did damage in a grapple then yes that would be the case.

 

[dcollins]

Ok, then is it true that, as long as the hellcat maintains the hold, it gets automatic bite damage without a roll, then?

No. See my last post above.

 

[Aluvial]

The hellcat entry states it can pounce. In other words, it can make a full attack in the first round of combat even if it moved that round.

I asked this same question earlier here... Thought this might help...

Re: Pounce Question?

quote:
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Originally posted by Aluvial
Can a creature pounce more than once in a combat if it is against different opponents?

Furthermore, can you only pounce during the first round of combat? Is that right?

I'm talking about a Griffon here...

Aluvial
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Pounce now works whenever the creature Charges, not only on the first round of combat (updated in MMII).

From the WotC boards:

"Skip Williams has indicated that he considers this change "semi-official errata" that should probably be retroactively applied to all previous creatures with the pounce ability."

Aluvial