Help a Paladin in need!

[Sir Devria]

In my groups world right now the Gods have vanished and taken priestly magic along with them. Now along with that paladins have also lost access to there spells but not with there spell like abilities (detect magic, remove sickness ect.) Now what im curiouse about is weather you think that they should also lose there spell like abilities, there Lay on hands power and thier smite attack. Me and my DM always talk about this and im really at a loss. I think that a Paladins inborn holyness should still allow him to use Lay on hands as well as Smite but that his direct divine magic (spells and detect evil) should be lost.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Tarangil]

Don't lose your faith. Try to see it from your characters perspective. Are the gods gone forever? Or is it a test to the faithful? Keep you paladian as faithful as he/she has always been even with the lack of powers, when the gods do return*, your patron would recognize your loyalty and hopefully the rewards would be great.

Or you could take the initiative and rally some of your followers/teammates to go to the home plane of your got to get down to the bottom of things.




*I'm sure your DM has an interesting plot to unfold

 

[Herobizkit]

Well, considering that (in many cases) you can create a cleric with no specific tie to a deity and still get spells and domains, why woudn't the same thing be said about paladins?

Of course, if your DM says no priestly spells, that shouldn't mean any of you other class abilities disappear, right? You're still the holy crusader; your strength of faith and dedication to all that is Good and Lawful should be enough to retain your abilities.

At least, that's how it would go down in my game.

'Cause that's how I roll.

 

[Sejs]

A) Keep the faith, man. Just because the gods can't talk back now doesn't mean you should abandon 'em. Heck, in our own world a higher power giving someone a direct 'hey, what's up' is rather rare, yet many people are able to remain perfectly steadfast in their belief.

B) As per the book, a paladin doesn't need a god per se in order to go about his paladining. Devotion to the cause is enough to keep them going. I'd say if you want to nix divine spells, then nix divine spells, but leave a paladins other abilities alone, as they come from the man and his faith.

 

[Torm]

I see no problem with your Paladin continuing to manifest his Paladin abilities. The other posters are correct: the powers come from within the Paladin.

What no one else has mentioned, though, is that the reason for this is that a deity bestows Paladin abilities by placing a small part of himself within the Paladin. That is the reason Paladin abilities vanish as a piece if he Falls - the deity takes that piece back.

Given this, in your campaign world, your Paladin would possibly become a point of faith for the clerics of his devotion - proof of the continued power of the deity, even in their absence. Possibly even a battery - maybe try having your Paladin do a full Lay On Hands on a healthy Cleric, and see if they are "filled with divine spirit" (in other words, get their daily spells ). Would make an interesting character moment, even if it doesn't work.

So speaks Torm, the True, the Loyal Fury, God of Paladins.

 

[Conaill]

Don't be afraid to metagame things a little when you're planning things OOC with your DM...

Is there a Cleric in the party who has lost *all* his abilities? Would the player feel less singled out to know that the Paladin is suffering too?

How would you as a player feel about having your Paladin reduced to essentially a weak Fighter? Would you consider that a great roleplaying opportunity, or would it start to grate on your nerves after a few sessions?

The question you posed is one that could easily go either way, and the DM could come up with a reasonable justification either way. So here's your chance to help your DM make a "design decision" that will lead to a more enjoyable game for all involved...

 

[Steverooo]

And now for something totally different...

I'll go differently from all the other posters, yet again. I'm an old 1Er, and in 1e, first- and second-level spells came from the Bard/Cleric/Druid/Paladin/Ranger, anyway, and not the deity.

But in any case, Divine Health is (Ex), and a few powers (like the mount) are (Sp). The rest are (Su). If spells don't work - at all - not even the low level ones, then the (Sp) powers might not, either. The (Su) ones might or might not. The (Ex) ones (both of them) should.

What you and your GM decide to do is really up to you two. You can do it whichever way you like. Perhaps (Su) powers work on the "background" magical radiation of the Universe, and don't require the gods to power them. Alternately, perhaps some giant magical amoeboid creature has absorbed all the (Divine) magical energy, making them useless until the godling of Paths & Doorways figures out how to re-open Divine relations with this plane (sounds like something Yog-Sothoth would do, to me!) One explanation is about as good as another...

I had a GM, once, running a Traveller campaign, who found Psionics to be too much of a hassle, so he used a "giant, psi-sucking space amoeba" to explain why it no longer worked within the campaign, and got rid of it. You could do the same, or just say that, "Just like monsters' Spell-like and Supernatural abilities still work, my Paladin's do, too!" Either answer is fine. Do what you want.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I think the answer to this is very campaign-specific. In my campaign, if the gods had vanished completely and no longer touched the world at all, then paladins would lose all of their powers. They are channels for divine power, and all of their special abilities are granted to them through a pure, raw connection to the divine. With no god to bless them with superhuman power, they're only human.

But then, that's my own campaign. I as a DM do not believe in "innate divine power." Divine by its very nature means derived from a god(dess).

Clearly, as previous posts have shown, other DMs would rule differently. In the end, only your DM matters.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Unless this abandonment had been discussed & cleared with me beforehand, I would take a very dim view of this development. Whatever story element it supports it does not eliminate the fact that the divine classes have become sub-par & not fun to play, even if for only a few sessions.

Ruleswise I think it depends on where all the paladin powers are derived from. I wouldn't go for half measures if only for simplicity.

 

[philreed]

Unless this abandonment had been discussed & cleared with me beforehand, I would take a very dim view of this development. Whatever story element it supports it does not eliminate the fact that the divine classes have become sub-par & not fun to play, even if for only a few sessions.

I think that, for me, it would depend on the reward when the events are concluded.

And don't forget the Cult of Ao from the Forgotten Realms Adventures. Specialty priests of that faith received no spells or special powers. I actually played a priest of this faith (long ago) for a few sessions and it was a fun change.