D&D 5E Help a Paladin out Bro. AKA rewarding Paladins.

[Salthorae]

Erm... Aren’t a paladin’s class abilities the “reward” for adhering to their Oath? Or I guess their subclass abilities. At any rate, I don’t think any additional reward is needed. To be honest, I don’t generally pay much attention to Paladin Oaths in play. I suppose if a Paladin committed a particularly egregious violation I might have some role playing consequences, which might lead to a sidequest for redemption, but I’ve never actually had that come up.

Yes, but...,

The point of the post is just that. DM's often penalize Paladins for egregious (or not) violations of the Oaths, but rarely for unerring adherence to them. Which to me undermines the point of them.

They are there as roleplaying guides for both the DM and Player. Think of them like another set of Traits/Ideals/Bonds/Flaws that can generate Inspiration if done well.

If you're willing to punish violations, then there should be room for rewards of well-played adherence IMO

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes, but...,

The point of the post is just that. DM's often penalize Paladins for egregious (or not) violations of the Oaths, but rarely for unerring adherence to them. Which to me undermines the point of them.

They are there as roleplaying guides for both the DM and Player. Think of them like another set of Traits/Ideals/Bonds/Flaws that can generate Inspiration if done well.

If you're willing to punish violations, then there should be room for rewards of well-played adherence IMO

Frankly, I think rewarding “good role playing” is pretty gross. I’m not a fan of DMs judging the “quality” of players’ RP, which is one of many reasons that I leave it to my players to claim Inspiration when they feel they have adequately portrayed their background traits.

As for the idea that if Paladins can be punished for failing to uphold their oath, they should be able to be rewarded for successfully adhering to it... I don’t think that follows logically. The cops don’t go around handing out prizes to citizens with clean criminal records. Sometimes lack of punishment is the only reward for adherence to the rules.

Moreover, I think the idea that “lots of DMs punish their Paladin players for violating their oaths” is pretty overblown. I might start a new thread about the subject to get a more accurate read, but my intuition is that Paladins actually violating their oaths isn’t an especially common occurrence, and when it does happen, it’s usually because the player is interested in exploring that avenue of RP.

 

[Salthorae]

Frankly, I think rewarding “good role playing” is pretty gross. I’m not a fan of DMs judging the “quality” of players’ RP, which is one of many reasons that I leave it to my players to claim Inspiration when they feel they have adequately portrayed their background traits.

As for the idea that if Paladins can be punished for failing to uphold their oath, they should be able to be rewarded for successfully adhering to it... I don’t think that follows logically. The cops don’t go around handing out prizes to citizens with clean criminal records. Sometimes lack of punishment is the only reward for adherence to the rules.

Moreover, I think the idea that “lots of DMs punish their Paladin players for violating their oaths” is pretty overblown. I might start a new thread about the subject to get a more accurate read, but my intuition is that Paladins actually violating their oaths isn’t an especially common occurrence, and when it does happen, it’s usually because the player is interested in exploring that avenue of RP.

I... didn't say that DM's judge "quality" of roleplay? But I have no problem judging if someone is sticking to the character concept they rolled up or came up with based on their Traits/Ideals/Bonds/Flaws and for Paladins the Oaths they took.

Your analogy seems to be flat to me.

In D&D Paladins aren't citizens with clean criminal records. They are a fantasy version of the police. Just like IRL there are local police, local sheriffs, state police, federal police. D&D has city watch, town guards, military orders, Paladin orders, etc.

And cops very much DO get rewarded for succeeding and going above and beyond their Oath of Offices, with promotions, medals, and citations.

The experience I've seen most often with Paladins, DM's, and punishment is often not the Paladin violating their oath on purpose, but DM's and Player disagreement on what it means to violate the oaths and the consequences of that before they start play with the paladin PC.

 

[5ekyu]

First, whatever partnerdhip, family or organization paladins, clerics, warlocks, druids plays a role in the gsme and thst brings with it a more reliable access to friendly dispositions npcs.

Second, spdcif8c acts get noticed by others and reactions go accordingly especially if the " ordrr" is knoen.

Third, this more of less follows from the first two, more in-game opportunities that are favorabletowsrds their actions snd oath comes their way.

Finally, for services towards goals etc boons and charms are of course possible to everyone but these guys sorta have the inside track on these in certain directions.

I long ago divorced role playing from either gimmick points player side or xcludive mechanical benefits.

I want role-playing to be it's own reward, not a vheck-box like a sandwich shop "free sub after 10" punch card.

 

[Shiroiken]

I feel no need to reward players for playing their character class. I will reward inspiration for good roleplay actions.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That's what their class abilities are- a reward for service rendered.

I really hope that y’all saying this aren’t the same folks talking about taking the Paladin’s powers away if they fail to live up to their oaths.

Erm... Aren’t a paladin’s class abilities the “reward” for adhering to their Oath? Or I guess their subclass abilities. At any rate, I don’t think any additional reward is needed. To be honest, I don’t generally pay much attention to Paladin Oaths in play. I suppose if a Paladin committed a particularly egregious violation I might have some role playing consequences, which might lead to a sidequest for redemption, but I’ve never actually had that come up.

But, if they can be punished for not living up to their oath in ways that other classes aren’t, but can’t be rewarded in ways not available to others, then you’ve made playing a Paladin punitive.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

For me, Paladins can’t lose their powers unless the player wants to explore that.

However, because they can be met with negative consequences that a ranger or fighter usually wouldn’t face, and have more restrictions in how they can act(with player buy in), they also have opportunities for unique rewards.

Generally, this is just in world stuff like higher social standing, NPCs giving them benefit of the doubt when reasonable to do so, folks being more willing to help the party because the Paladin asks, more likely to be given shelter in a temple, etc.

But I tailor a lot of the game to my players’ characters.

 

[Charlaquin]

I really hope that y’all saying this aren’t the same folks talking about taking the Paladin’s powers away if they fail to live up to their oaths.

I would not take a Paladin’s class or subclass abilities away from them, unless it was something the player specifically wanted. I have had one player who was interested in playing a Paladin who fell and ended up with the Oathbreaker subclass. Of course, we ended up having the fall happen before he reached 3rd level, so even then no powers were taken away.

But, if they can be punished for not living up to their oath in ways that other classes aren’t, but can’t be rewarded in ways not available to others, then you’ve made playing a Paladin punitive.

This line of thinking assumes that the consequences for violating one’s oath are a punishment. As I said in the other thread, in my experience players who want to play Paladins either want to play to their Oath, or specifically want to explore roleplaying the fall. In the former case, the character is unlikely to ever face the consequences for breaking their oath, and in the latter case it’s not a punishment because it’s what the player wants.

At any rate, I prefer to keep the consequences for oathbreaking narrative. You’re not going to lose your powers for breaking your oath at my table (again, unless you want to,) but you might get into trouble with the entity or organization you swore your oath to and have to deal with that in play. I don’t see that as any different from a rogue risking getting into trouble with the guard for picking pockets, or the wizard getting into trouble with the circle of magi for dabbling in necromancy, or the dwarf being unwelcome in the elf enclave or whatever.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I would not take a Paladin’s class or subclass abilities away from them, unless it was something the player specifically wanted. I have had one player who was interested in playing a Paladin who fell and ended up with the Oathbreaker subclass. Of course, we ended up having the fall happen before he reached 3rd level, so even then no powers were taken away.


This line of thinking assumes that the consequences for violating one’s oath are a punishment. As I said in the other thread, in my experience players who want to play Paladins either want to play to their Oath, or specifically want to explore roleplaying the fall. In the former case, the character is unlikely to ever face the consequences for breaking their oath, and in the latter case it’s not a punishment because it’s what the player wants.

At any rate, I prefer to keep the consequences for oathbreaking narrative. You’re not going to lose your powers for breaking your oath at my table (again, unless you want to,) but you might get into trouble with the entity or organization you swore your oath to and have to deal with that in play. I don’t see that as any different from a rogue risking getting into trouble with the guard for picking pockets, or the wizard getting into trouble with the circle of magi for dabbling in necromancy, or the dwarf being unwelcome in the elf enclave or whatever.

That’s fair. I do think those are distinct in general, but obviously I am not at your table.

To me, the dwarf isn’t being presented with behavioral restrictions and expectations. The Dwarf union isn’t likely to come for him if he doesn’t act dwarfy enough. And I see that difference (again, with player buy in) as an asset, not an issue.