Help an 7th level Rogue Archer

[Ciaran]

What about combining Manyshot with Improved Feint?

 

[kenobi65]

What about combining Manyshot with Improved Feint?

Wouldn't work, for at least one reason.

1) Feinting in combat denies your target his Dex bonus to AC against your next melee attack. Doesn't work on ranged attacks.

2) Manyshot is not an attack; it's a standard action (which is why you can't use both Rapid Shot and Manyshot at the same time). So, even if the issue above didn't exist, some DMs would argue that you couldn't gain the benefits of feinting on a Manyshot anyway.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Yeah; AFAICT, Manyshot is best for a ranger, who can combine a manyshot volley with sniping and hiding (one standard for (BAB+4)/5 arrow shots, then one move to hide).

 

[BadMojo]

He could take the feat Deadeye shot from PH II to get 1 sneak attack shot per round.

That's the way I would go. I'd take Deadeye Shot from PHBII. It'll allow him to ready an action to take one sneak attack shot at an opponent who has just been hit by an ally. This gives him the one sneak attack per round mentioned above.

I'd go with that feat + any initiative buffing feat to get that first shot in a combat + straight rogue to build up that SA damage.

If your looking for prestige classes, the Nightsong Enforcer has good BAB progression and SA too (from Complete Adventurer).

 

[Fishbone]

Craven and Splitting along with enchantments bought or made by the resident divine caster like Golemstrike and Gravestrike. All your attacks become 2 attacks, another 8 damage a sneak attack shot.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I played an archer rogue from levels 5-11 with pretty good success in combat. For me, the secret was to find feats to help out sneak attack that didn't discriminate in favor of melee (like Imp. Feint). Two very useful feats were:

1) A feat from Song and Silence, think it was called Quicker Than the Eye. It required a dex 19, but he should have that by now. Let you make a skill check (bluff, I believe) as a move action, and if the enemy failed an opposed spot check, you could immendiately use your standard to sneak attack him. The only catch is, if you go to near epic levels, the sneak attack may not be worth losing the full attack. Note: please don't confuse this with the feat from the same book that let you make a slight of hand check to draw and sneak with a light melee weapon. That's a different feat, but everyone I know mixes them up.

2) Staggering Strike from Complete Adventurer. Lose some SA damage to rob your opponent of full-attack actions? Sounds like a winner to me!

Also, if he has a decent cha score, level 7-8 is where UMD can really start to make the rogue great as a utility fighter. Have him take skill mastery as his first rogue ability and include UMD in the selections so he can take 10 and not worry about any nasty failures. Bluff (or whatever skill it was to use the first feat) would be another good choice for this.

 

[monboesen]

4) Rapid Shot is probably not worth it for this character until he can get his attack bonus up; once that happens, though, it's a no-brainer. One extra sneak attack per round is ALWAYS a good idea. I'm not so sure about Manyshot; the restriction on precision-based damage just seems to defeat the purpose, and a -4 attack roll is mighty sucky for a rogue.

Basically Rapid shot is always good, even with a medium BAB. At level 9 when he can get it, he will have 2 attacks per round. That will turn into 3 attacks per round with Rapid shot.

Lets assume he is shooting at an enemy where he needs a 11 to hit with his first attack, and thus a 16 with his second attack.

Thats a 50% and 25% chance of hitting, that equals 75% chance of hitting each round.

With Rapid shot he will need a 13 on his first 2 attacks and a 18 on the last.

Thats 40%+40%+15% = 95% chance each round.

If you keep doing the math you get the result that you always have a higher chance to hit by using Rapid shot no matter what you need to roll to hit (except when you need an 18 to hit with your best attack, at that point it turns out equal at 15%).

 

[OakwoodDM]

Actually, that's not how the probability works.

With the first example, the probabilities you have to add up are those of hitting with the first and missing with the second, missing with the first and hitting with the second, and hitting with both. This comes out to (0.5*0.75)+(0.5*0.25)+(0.5*0.25) or 0.625, 62.5%.

With the second example, it's more complex. The outcomes and their probabilities are (H = hit, M = miss. I'm a lazy typist):

HMM, 0.204
MHM, 0.204
HHM, 0.136
HMH, 0.036
MHH, 0.036
MMH, 0.054
HHH, 0.024

This comes out to a probability of a hit in the round being 0.694, or 69.4%.

So yes, the chance of scoring a hit is increased marginally, but it's nowhere near 95%.

Obviously for you other probability people out there, if I have made a mistake or missed out an outcome, please feel free to correct me. I'm as fallible as the next man, if not moreso.

EDIT: Of course, the easier way of doing it is working out the chance of missing everything and taking it away from 100%.
It the first example, this is (0.5*0.75) = 0.375, which, when taken away from 1 leaves 0.625, which is the same as above.
In the second example, it's (0.6*0.6*0.85) = 0.306, which, when taken away from 1, leaves 0.694, which is the same as above. I can't believe it took rereading the post to realise this...

 

[monboesen]

Hmm I am a bit fuzzy on the subject. But I think what might be the difference on our approach is that your give the actual probability to hit in a given round.

Mine is just how many of your attacks that will hit on average, which means over a lot of rounds.

So you have calculated a 62,5 % chance of hitting any given round when you need to roll 11 with the first attack.

I have calculated that you get an average of 0,75 hits per round when you need to roll 11 with the first attack.


Does that sound right ?

 

[Old Gumphrey]

Honestly if he isn't set up to take Manyshot at 9th (IE, already have Rapid Shot), he's really not going to catch up. Adding 2 levels of fighter would seriously help out his archery skills though, and I'd recommend that course of action to virtually any rogue who even considers physical or ranged combat; meaning if he takes his next level as fighter and grabs Rapid Shot, he can still snake (pun intended) Manyshot at 9th. However I'm not keen on Yuan-Ti favored classes so he might have gotten his pooch screwed on this one.

Don't forget to show him the sniping rules with the Hide skill, it's really the only way to make an effective rogue archer.