Help build campaign

[Glomb175]

Rookie roleplayer, rookie DM, been playing about a year, been DMing about six months, coming up to the end of LMoP and have started planning my first homebrew to kick off straight from the end of LMoP. I'm just after some ideas, suggestions etc. as it's my first time.

Feel free to start suggesting right away, I need help with quest building which is noted after this introduction, feel free to skip the campaign background if you're not interested.

If you're unfamiliar with LMoP, there is a wizard called Glasstaff that my party were unable to capture and he has been eluding them ever since, even giving them cursed items, he's always one step ahead.
Once they complete the main quest, they will be invited to Neverwinter for an award ceremony to thank them for their vigilance (think the end of A New Hope, each of them going up one at a time being awarded a medal by some figure of royalty).
It will then come about that the royal figurehead awarding the medals is Glasstaff, this will become apparent to the players, but no one else. Presumably they will attack, which will land them in prison. They will then be transported to Abeir Toril by way of airship, in shackles that restrict arcana. During their travels they will have the opportunity to learn Draconic from a fellow prisoner (not fluent, just enough to know a few words, I've researched the rules for learning languages).
Once in Abeir Toril, they will be greeted by a clan of Dragonborn and immediately escorted to an arena for a bit of PVP. Before any fatalities, this fight will be stopped by the clan leader who will release the players of their imprisonment and welcome them as humble guests as he wishes to aid them in killing Glasstaff. Basically he will be super duper nice to them to gain their trust, first off by killing his right hand man who forced them to fight eachother in the arena.
Long story short, he will continue to be an amazing host to them, then at the end of the campaign, the leader's nemesis will be revealed who is the party's former companion (my old Dragonborn character). They will then have to choose between the leader who has been really nice to them, and their old accomplice.

So what I really need help with is the actual quests they're performing for this clan leader. I was thinking first; rescue the clan builder who has been taken hostage by an enemy of the clan. Once returned safely, he will build each player their very own keep, build to match their individual styles and wants. Then continue on that method e.g. rescue the clan blacksmith (reward - sick weapons), rescue the clan alchemist (reward - sick potions) etc. but that's a bit rinse and repeat so all ideas welcome from you much more experienced players and dungeon masters.

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[GameOgre]

Gah! So many issues! Congrats on becoming a DM man!

Ok so im just gonna throw a few things at you.

It's never a good idea to capture the pc's. It works in movies and stories sometimes but never in a rpg.

What if they don't attack? What then?

This is what I would do.Start small, building simple location based adventures. As the players play through them I would fix any mistakes I see in them and make new adventures with those mistakes in mind. slowly as your player characters level they will build enemies and friendships all there own.

I would use character backgrounds when generating a lot of the adventures and try and figure out just what types of adventure they like the most.

At this point I would probably realize that I make a crap ton of adventures that never get used and have a ever growing pile of adventures that never saw the light of day. That's ok though! That is a good thing! Because at this point I have gotten to realize that pc's are simply hard to predict. They go left when you just knew they would go right. When that happens its a great thing to have a alternate adventure.

I would keep away from adventure paths. Yes they are nice if you don't have the time BUT they teach you as a starting DM some bad habits. Bad habits like railroading pc's into a rigid storyline with little room for choice of any sort and no out of the box thinking.

Nope, stick to your adventure creation and over time you will get better and better. Make npc's that are fun to play because of how wild and crazy they are, make some that are so typical that it's not funny, have some break all the molds and make a ton of npc's who are exactly what they seem.

See you can't control the player characters. It's not even a good thing to try. You want the player characters to use their imaginations and engage with your world. While you build a grand adventure based around the evil wizard who is disguised as the kings right hand man, the player characters grew to dislike the guard Jeff who was always on duty and who obviously didn't like them. No They didn't give to copper for your adventure threads but wanted to ruin Jeff! When you removed Jeff from the picture by having him run off into the southern desert the player characters knew they were on to something and now they have left the kingdom to bring that dastardly fellow Jeff down!

MANY of your best adventures and most fun you will ever have will involve this aspect of the game. What will happen to Jeff? Does Jeff become Dark Jeff Lord of The Sith? Does the party find out he was blackmailed to leave by the kings right hand man because he saw the king inspelled? Did Jeff go to the desert to recruit a army to save the kingdom?

by the end of the adventure is Jeff the new King put in place by the party because he is such a great guy and tried to save the old king?

 

[Glomb175]

, so I guess I should just scrap everything I've done so far and start again doing as you've said; giving the PC's freedom to invent and adventure themselves?

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[Quickleaf]

Rookie roleplayer, rookie DM, been playing about a year, been DMing about six months, coming up to the end of LMoP and have started planning my first homebrew to kick off straight from the end of LMoP. I'm just after some ideas, suggestions etc. as it's my first time.

I think it's smart that you've got a year of playing and a bit of DMing under your belt before embarking on a homebrew campaign. Definitely don't be dejected by some of us "old-timer" DMs. It's important that you as DM really enjoy the game too, after all you're player #4 or 5 or 6 or whatever. You should have a say in the sort of game you run, but you want to listen to your players too.

Presumably they will attack,

You know your players, so sometimes you can anticipate what they'll do. This seems like a big assumption to me.

which will land them in prison.

The even bigger assumption, however, is that they lose the fight / aren't able to expose Glasstaff. That is a sign of "rail-roading", which means, essentially, that the DM is indulging in aspirations of being a novelist and really isn't giving the players a chance to influence the story Don't worry, most of us made that mistake along the way.

And putting the PCs into a scenario as captives rarely works. You can START a story there, like A1 Slave Pits of the Undercity did, but I really mean START – the first words out of your mouth are setting the scene with the PCs as slaves. Attempting to capture them AFTER starting play? 9 times out of 10 that flops. Terribly. Players hate it; they fight it tooth-and-nail. The only time you rally get to do a capture scenario as DM is (a) if the party makes a mistake and through the course of play ends up getting beaten (they suffer a TPK and you decide to have them captured instead), or (b) the PCs decide to pretend to be captives to infiltrate or gain info undercover.

They will then be transported to Abeir Toril by way of airship,

The game's setting is something you want to get group input on. Normally you want to have a "session zero" discussing play expectations – if you need help coming up with the questions to ask during "session zero", just ask and we can help. But what you don't want to do is impose upon the players a new setting "Abeir Toril" when they are hoping for / invested in bog standard Forgotten Realms or pseudo medieval fantasy. Also, uplifting the PCs fom their home environments can tend to invalidate their background choices.

in shackles that restrict arcana. Once in Abeir Toril, they will be greeted by a clan of Dragonborn and immediately escorted to an arena for a bit of PVP.

In reality, the rogue picks the lock on his shackles, the mage uses the shackles as a spell component, the cleric uses them as an improvised weapon, and the fighter uses them to slide down the banner wire to choke out the guard captain from behind...and then they throw the evil baron off his perch and the hidden rogue pulls the lever unleashing the captured dire bear upon the baron. This is how players think.

"You must fight one another" looks good in principle, but as the old adage goes: No plan survives contact with the players.

Before any fatalities, this fight will be stopped by the clan leader who will release the players of their imprisonment and welcome them as humble guests as he wishes to aid them in killing Glasstaff. Basically he will be super duper nice to them to gain their trust, first off by killing his right hand man who forced them to fight eachother in the arena.
Long story short, he will continue to be an amazing host to them, then at the end of the campaign, the leader's nemesis will be revealed who is the party's former companion (my old Dragonborn character). They will then have to choose between the leader who has been really nice to them, and their old accomplice.

So what I really need help with is the actual quests they're performing for this clan leader. I was thinking first; rescue the clan builder who has been taken hostage by an enemy of the clan. Once returned safely, he will build each player their very own keep, build to match their individual styles and wants. Then continue on that method e.g. rescue the clan blacksmith (reward - sick weapons), rescue the clan alchemist (reward - sick potions) etc. but that's a bit rinse and repeat so all ideas welcome from you much more experienced players and dungeon masters.

What stands out to me is the lack of any player or character names / motivations in your story outline.

You have a story without characters, essentially. And in D&D that's no story at all.

Not sure if your players already have characters created for this campaign, but if not, then during "session zero" you want to be writing down details about their PCs (motives, backgrounds, bonds/flaws/ideals/personality traits, potential story and adventure hooks, NPCs the player makes up, etc), and incorporating those details into your campaign arc.

Here's an example from one of my games set in the Witcher setting:

[SECTION]The overextended Nilfgaardian Empire is at the edge of Dol Blathanna, the elven nation once established as a protectorate. A group of heroes have journeyed here over the Blue Mountains bringing a half-elven woman named Odvara who possesses the gift of magic to be trained under the supervision of the elven queen & mighty sorceress Francisca Findabair. Each of these heroes has their reasons.

For the sly witcheress Kynee, what is supposed to be a simple job-for-coin serves as a cover for her smuggling mission, but becomes more complicated as it's revealed Odvara was born under the same Black Sun (eclipse) as Kynee and they share unusual mutations.

For the storm sorceress Talashia, who was betrayed by a rival sorceress in league with the Cult of the Black Sun, this is an opportunity to engage more deeply in the politics of sorcery far from the witch-burning fires scouring the rest of the world...and there's something in the air of Dol Blathanna that speaks to her.

For the witch/sorceress Elora, who suffered greatly trying to control her own gift, she empathizes with Odvara. Moreover, having once been cursed as a hag, Elora realizes the hag who seems to be after Odvara has a connection to her, and must draw upon her past hag-hunting experience.

For the steadfast witcher Fergus, this is a mission of honor complicated by his past hag-hunting with Elora, and by Odvara's doting upon him as her guardian knight. There may be an opportunity to discover what the mysterious runes covering his body mean as well.

For the dwarf Barakor, this is also a mission of honor, however it's personal as well; the darkness that has fallen over his homeland Mahakam is spreading in Dol Blathanna, and he must fight against it if hopes to save the mind of the mad dwarven king.

For the elf Tamaran, this is a chance to find his place in elven society after years as a Scioa'tael rebel, while Odvara challenges many of the elvish superstitions that Tamaran grew up with but has always questioned.[/SECTION]

 

[Glomb175]

We already have characters, they'll continue with them as we crossover into the new campaign.
Everyone says do a session zero but the problem with my group of rookie role players (only a year and a total of about 10 sessions) every time I ask their opinions or what they like/dislike etc. they just say "don't mind, happy with anything" so basically it's up to me to come up with everything.
OK so I'll get rid of the imprisonment, and give them a few options at the end of lmop of where to go and what to do next, one of which is investigate and pursue what happened to their former dragonborn associate (as he was teleported away when we did the dm switch),
They want to do a pvp arena to see who's best though so I'd like to include that.

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[aco175]

Some players are happy to just get together and play. It is more spending time with each other and such rather than just D&D. Some players are happy to kill things and take their treasure while some others are more gaining magic and such. A few players are into the roleplaying aspect and are more thinking like actors while some are more tacticians. Most players like to combine some aspects of all these types. New players may not really know or understand how they can affect the campaign. There are few other games that change based on players wanting to go in other directions and it takes time to get into that mode. Just beware of players that go off-game just because they can and hog the limelight.

Don't be afraid to look on DMsGuild for modules that you can use as is or modify to your campaign. There are several modules designed to take place after LMoP and take place in the same region. Many are free or cheap to have. I like when a dungeon is planned out and I can just change the bad guy or background and use the main description and stats easily.

 

[Glomb175]

Some players are happy to just get together and play. It is more spending time with each other and such rather than just D&D. Some players are happy to kill things and take their treasure while some others are more gaining magic and such. A few players are into the roleplaying aspect and are more thinking like actors while some are more tacticians. Most players like to combine some aspects of all these types. New players may not really know or understand how they can affect the campaign. There are few other games that change based on players wanting to go in other directions and it takes time to get into that mode. Just beware of players that go off-game just because they can and hog the limelight.

Don't be afraid to look on DMsGuild for modules that you can use as is or modify to your campaign. There are several modules designed to take place after LMoP and take place in the same region. Many are free or cheap to have. I like when a dungeon is planned out and I can just change the bad guy or background and use the main description and stats easily.

I think dmsguild may be my best option, the reason I want to do homebrew (aside from the obvious reasons) is because when I'm playing a premade campaign, I stick quite religiously to the book because I'm worried if I improv something, it may have an adverse affect in the future, whereas if it's my campaign, I'll know what will and won't damage the campaign, I'll know who the NPC's are and how they'd act etc. without constantly checking the book

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[Herobizkit]

For players who have no specific tastes, make a branching path where their choices are limited, but still allowable. If you've ever enjoyed a "Choose Your Own Adventure" book, you'll see the same concepts.

Rather than asking the players "What do you do?" and hope they do something, give them the options up front.

Example:
"You have arrived at the sleepy town of Fraggle Rock. You travel along the main road, a double-wide cart trail with single-story buildings on either side. When you reach the apparent centre of town, a gruff looking dwarf stands cross-armed in front of a covered wagon. The faint sound of a lute can be heard nearby as well, coming from what appears to be the local tavern.

Would you like to approach the dwarf or head into the tavern?"

That should be enough to get the party talking about ideas.

 

[Glomb175]

So the general consensus here was "don't do it", mainly for the railroading of characters. But my idea isn't dissimilar to LMoP which is all of our first campaign. There's a town, NPC's, a few side quests, and a main boss. The goal is laid out for the characters and they follow it. Why would it work in published campaigns but not mine? I think it would work for my group because they're not like experienced players, they don't think outside the box, they metagame if anything, they think and say "the dm is implying this is the goal, that's where we should go, let's do it, let's do the suggested tasks as requested to progress through the campaign"

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[Imaculata]

So the general consensus here was "don't do it", mainly for the railroading of characters. But my idea isn't dissimilar to LMoP which is all of our first campaign. There's a town, NPC's, a few side quests, and a main boss.

I don't think anyone takes issue with those elements.

The goal is laid out for the characters and they follow it. Why would it work in published campaigns but not mine?

I'm not a fan of this, even when published campaigns do it. Published campaigns are often designed to be linear adventures. If your players agree to follow the quest that is presented, fine. The general consensus is often that when you play a published campaign, you tend to accept that it is a linear story. But there is no reason why your own campaign needs to be linear as well. In fact, I think you should try to make it better. The published adventure is a stepping stone into a greater world. So why stay on the stepping stone and hold yourself and your players back?

I think it would work for my group because they're not like experienced players, they don't think outside the box, they metagame if anything, they think and say "the dm is implying this is the goal, that's where we should go, let's do it, let's do the suggested tasks as requested to progress through the campaign.

There's plenty of groups that play linear adventures, and there's nothing wrong with that. But why would you write your campaign in such a way that it hinges on the players doing exactly as planned? What if they don't do as planned?

In my opinion, it is much easier as a DM to write the story in such a way that it can continue regardless of what the players do, and adapt the story to their choices along the way. I'll give you an example from my own campaign:

I have a big fight planned with a tribe of cannibals and their leader. The problem is, the players are currently somewhere else, and not that interested in dealing with the cannibals. Fortunately, the plot of my campaign does not hinge on the players dealing with the cannibals. I have plenty of other plot threads going on, and the cannibals are currently not that important to the plot. But I could choose to escalate the situation with the cannibals if the players leave them to do their evil stuff, and make the issue more pressing. I could also move the focus of the story to the players and their plans to build a base on said cannibal-infested island. This would naturally bring the cannibal issue more to the foreground, and eventually lead them to the big battle at some point. Or I could introduce a plot hook that draws their attention to the cannibals, thus again leading them to the big cannibal battle. At no point do I need to force them to fight the cannibals, and the plot does not stall because of it. The plot continues regardless, but their choices do matter. They could choose to ignore the cannibals till the end of time, and if so, the fight simply won't happen, and thats okay. But being a storyteller, I'll probably find some point in the story where the cannibals have the most plot relevance, and steer the plot towards the big confrontation then.