Help building the villian

Turik2100

First Post
The DM that tought me to play told me that he winged it when it came to villians in his stories. I did this for a while but I prefer to stat out 100% my villians. I was going to build a summoner for my main villian but I found conjuration to be a little under powered, so I'm building a necromancer.

So I'm using a gestalt build since my players are gestalt. I already know about the dread necromancer and the pale master, but I don't see the point of staying in the pale master for too long. So I need a few questions answered so I understand everything.

1. What should the build be through level 20?
2. what are the best equipment for building a necromancer?
3. How does the HD/caster level work with the undead leadership feat?
4. Whats better zombies or skeletons?
5. Are their any good military tactics to implement for the undead? (I don't like random spawning)
6. What are the best spells for necromancy?

Well if you guys got any extra advice to throw in it would be appreciate it. I'll ask more questions as they arise. Once again thanks for the help.
 

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Belzbet

First Post
First thing, with gestalt rules i think your right conjuration (in terms of summoning and maybe even planar ally) and necromancy, (in terms of controlling undead not the spells that inflict pain) are not the same as they are in regular games, but it still has potential (the CR of monsters are not balanced for gestalt rules so the monsters you summon are generally weaker for their lvl, assuming the PC's are fighting high level CR for their Part level (and assuming you dont want to change the summon monster list and the monster available for planar ally; but NOTE there is no limit to the number or creatures you can have with planar ally and planar binding (only practical limits like gp and convincing the creatures; you may have more baddies at higher level if you go conjuring that focuses on planar binding and making constructs, there is no limit to the amount of constructs a person can have only practical limits (but this NPC may be a heir))


Enough about conjuration:

1: your exact progression is upto you (especially the otherside of the gestalt build; but I would say that if you took cleric/dread necro. you would get two sets of turning so you would be able to command more undead via turning if took cleric/dread; also a domain (deathbound or something)increases the amount of crreatures controllable via turn undead (as is the amount of undead able to be commanded via rebuke undead is really low like your CL in HD of creatures) but I would suggest at least taking dread necromancer until the level you gain the big increase to your animate ability (you can control your CHA mod X HD instead of 4 X HD)
Many feats in libris mortis increase the undead you create through spells like animate dead...
At higher levels a cleric can command undead that propagate (a vampire can be of any HD and they have a +4 or somethign turn resist; a wraith is 5 HD and a +2 turn so a level 14 cleric can command a wraith, there is no limit to the amount of spawn a wraith can have under its command, you could have as many spawn as you think that wraith lured to their death (only humanoids can become wraiths; shadows, etc, mummy's, etc). These spawn would be IN ADDITION to any granted by animate or commaning, etc (since it is not you that is the source of the control). Also consider getting a non undead (non-undead cohort wont have a LA so you can have a higher level cleric; or just get a vampire cohort vampire make spawns) cohort that is a dread necro or cleric of a level 2 lower than you... He would get his own undead under his control (by proxy under your control since he is your cohort)... that will icnrease the undead by alot, the amount of undead you would be able to get is staggering (actually it is upto you since many undead that you could command propagate by killing so the amount of people they killed is upto the DM)... But even if you dont want to get propagating undead you could get quite a few undead under your command...

2: Rod of undead mastery in libris mortis increase the amount of HD you can control by double 9How I read the item is that it only works with the control undead spell, since otherwise it is really ambiguous and unclear what it does, does it apply to commanding, creating (through animate or create undead), or controlling (through control undead spell; I would say only controlling, meaning I am taking the wording of the item very seriously)


3: Undead leadership is not based on caster level but instead character level. its character level+CHA mod+2(for undead followers only; -4 for living followers)
You dont gain the +2 (or -4) for cohorts and your cohort ECL can be no more than 2 lower than you level; look on pg 106 of DMG for exact numbers.

4: I like skeletons because they are immune to cold and faster... You can get spells that do cold damage and all your forces will be immune and the PC's will take the damage; Also a zombie actually increased the HD of the base creature by double (so when determining the amount of undead you can create with animate dead you can have double the amount of skeletons as you can have zombies but zombies will have higher HP)

5: I would exploit the undead immunities (rooms filled with cloudkill or poisonous gas; spellcaster using these kind of spells to weaken foes while leaving there troops unharmed, mass inflict spells to heal your undead and damage foes, desecrated or unhallowed areas, if the PC's are good, unholy blight, unholy aura, blasphemy, even magic circle against good, and spells that half-fiend/cleric get that are evil aligned are devastating yet not outright lethal, blasphemy requires no save,)
 
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Thoughts on Conjuration:

Here is a strategy I used for a summoner/conjurer BBEG:

1) Sudden Extend / Maximize Time Stop
2) Summon Fiendish T-Rexes
3) Laugh as the party gets wish boned

Okay, onto the Necromancy. :)

Answer to Question 1:
The first question I have to ask is, is the BBEG a divine or arcane necromancer? Sadly wizards tend to get the short end of the stick when it comes to being a necromancer. The biggest thing has to do with being able to create undead but not immediately control them. Clerics are just better at it. But there are options we can use for the arcane and since it's a BBEG you can kinda hand waive that away. :) Do you have any preferences on themes for the necromancer? I personally like Pale Master and Master of Shrouds from LM. You can also take a look at the complete divine web enhancement class, The Nightcloak.

Pale Master gives you more and more immunities as you level up in it. Critical hits, stunning, free Undead Cohort, and you can punch people in the face so hard that they join your undead army. The undead armor is either going to be expensive (LM versions) or weak (MIC versions).

Master of Shrouds lets you summon incorporeal undead, starting at shadows and only getting better. Plus it stacks with your cleric levels for rebuking purposes.

If you go the arcane route, you can trade your familiar for an skeleton that gets stronger and stronger as you level up.

For feats, the corpse crafter line is good. Lich loved, while a bit icky, lets you walk about while your mindless undead ignore you. Lord of Uttercold and Black Lore of Moil are good metamagic selections. Tomb-Tainted Soul will help you if you're an evil cleric.

Finally, you can always go and make yourself a lich. Nothing says "Frustrate the party" when they have to go plane hopping to find your phylactery.


Answer to #2:

The rod of Undead Mastery is awesome letting you control 8 times your CL instead of 4.

If you don't have access to desecrate or unhallow, get yourself a dark skull. Be sure to get an altar in there too.

Staff of Hunting Spirits (CD) is kinda neat. Or a custom staff with whatever spells you think you'll cast most is a good choice.

If you're undead yourself then a cloak of turn resistance is a must have.


Answer to #3:
Undead leadership works similar to regular leadership except you get a penalty for attracting living cohorts/followers. Each undead has a LA/ECL for determining what you can attract. There's a short table on pg 32 of LM that should help. If you go Pale Master you'll get an undead cohort for free; saving you a feat slot.

One way to get even more undead is to have a wight cohort or one you've controlled magically. As your wight kills stuff they'll rise as wights under its control.


Answer to #4:
It depends.

Skeletons are faster and can do more in a turn. Zombies are slower but they can fly if they had wings.

A skeleton thoqua or rhemoraz is pretty awesome.

A hydra zombie or most outsiders-turned-zombie are just mean.

So really, you have to look carefully at what each creature loses and gains when you animate it. Sorry this isn't that much help. :(


Answer to #5:

What do you mean by random spawning? That you don't want your army spawning more undead? If that's the case then LM has an alternate rule on undead spawning. It allows the creating creature to make an Int check to forgo the creation of a spawn.

Mindless undead aren't going to be good for tactics other than "go there" and "kill that". Zombies can make good damage sponges.

Intelligent undead however, can and are just as clever as the living. So anything that you could expect the town watch or the king's army to do; a group of ghouls could reasonably do too.


Answer to 6:
Spells to consider include Ray of Enfeeblement, Shivering Cheesy Touch, Energy Drain, Wail of the Banshee. You can even use necromancy to try and stack fear effects on the party. Your goal is to use your necromancy to debuff the party from a distance while your ten headed hydra zombie eats the party.

If you have a large amount of low HD zombies or skeletons, load them up with Unliving Weapon. Nothing better than having the party blow themselves up.


Other Advice:
The biggest problem you'll run into is that if the party knows that the BBEG is a necromancer they are probably going to prepare accordingly. Death Ward, Soulfire Armor, Hero's Feast, Spawn Screen, feat and weapon choices can seriously neuter your offensive capability from your spell selection and your undead. An undead whose primary danger is negative levels is not a threat once your party pops off Mass Death Ward. So have a back up plan of some sort. Either through dispelling their magical enhancements or by punishing them for having it up (Reciprocal Gyre). Blackmail the party into doing ... something. (Leave this place or I'll have my ghouls eat your loved ones) Or set yourself up as a load bearing boss. ;)
 
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Turik2100

First Post
Thanks for your suggestions, It took me a while but I finally stat out my BBEG. You guys gave me a lot of great info!! Now I can start implementing him into my story.
 

aglondier

Explorer
In the last campaign I ran, (a vs. the undead campaign), I came up with a few real nasties that could help make your badguy memorable.

The key one at the low levels was what I called the Thrall Mark. The Necromancer branded his living servants/slaves/casual acquaintances with his mark, which gave them a small skill bonus that made them more valuable to him, but which cast Cause Minor Wound on them once a day...to remind them who their master is...and when they die, it casts animate dead on their corpse...and continues to cast Cause Minor Wound once per day.
This made the players' opponents much nastier, since they would fight cunningly to avoid death, but when they do die, the players now have to deal with an undead. If you give it a 5-10 minute delay on animating the corpses, they party may have moved on, not realising that a zombie horde is rising in their wake. I also ruled that unless the skellies/zombies were disposed of properly, the Cause Minor Wounds would slowly repair the undead over time causing further problems for the players.

Another was a Torc of minor control. It allowed the casting of Animate Dead once per month, and allowed the wearer to controll half their hit dice worth of undead. Relatively cheap for the Neromancer to make, or have his lackeys create. Not for their own use, but to grant as "favours" to allies. I scattered these things around everywhere.
Picture a poor miner, barely scraping a living out of his copper mine. Then he finds this, and suddenly he no longer has to pay wages or feed his miners, and they will work 24/7 without complaint...the possibilities are endless, as is the corruption of the owners souls, and the distraction it makes for the party. Did the local labour boss dig up the graveyard for cheap labour, or was it a fell necromancer building an army?

As for build. You're doing a gestalt? go Wizard 20 Cleric (death) 20 and bulk him out with Item Creation feats. Make Necromancy a favoured option, not his only option. As a generalist, he lacks limitations. Make any weaknesses he manifests be faked for the purpose of making his enemies underestimate him. Employ misdirection early and often. Dark robed masculine and imposing figure turns out to be the short, rather effeminate, younger son of the king...not the hugely muscular vampire lord who they thought they killed six months ago...who is the boss? both? neither? let them figure it out...
 

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
Nice stats. What about story?

Your villain needs:
- a network
- a routine
- a mission
- an evil quirk.

Otherwise, you just have a big enemy, not a villain.
 

emanresu

First Post
summoning weak?

try a neutral evil Druid on for size, pick up greenbound summoning and ashbound summoning and watch the beasties rip everybody apart!
 


Turik2100

First Post
I'm trying to build my Necromancer's army, I think I want one of his big followers to be an Angel of Decay. I'm going to have a small encounter with them with out them actually dying. Is there any other undead super baddies out there?
 

I'm trying to build my Necromancer's army, I think I want one of his big followers to be an Angel of Decay. I'm going to have a small encounter with them with out them actually dying. Is there any other undead super baddies out there?

I was in an encounter with an Angel of Decay not too long ago. I remember being underwhelmed. Maybe it was just the set up for the battle or we were adequately prepared for it.

Take a look at the Entomber in LM. A troop of those with some sort of leader is a lot of fun. Keep smacking the party into the dirt and anyone that stays on their feet gets to face the big undead.

The Boneyard (LM) is just plain nasty. Given how it's abilities work, you may want to avoid this if you just want a small encounter with the PCs most likely to survive.

Entropic Reaper (LM) can be fun too. But the warping ability can be devastating if you're not prepared to counter it.

Death Knights (MM2) are a good fall back of mine. I like having them as guards to BBEG. I also used one for a Sleepy Hallow themed Halloween adventure.

Take a look at the Slaymate (LM). Not as an encounter but as a pet for your villain.

Nightshades in the MM are neat. Great abilities though some may upset the players (Nightwalker's Magic Drain).

Otherwise you can never go wrong with mummies, liches or vampires.
 

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