Help change my Warlord impressions

[Zhure]

Trying to build a warlord and not coming up with anything viable for our small team of heroes.

The builds, level 3, I've been working on tend to come out a lot like a coat-rack. You know, bland, holds the other heroes coats, doesn't really shine.

Is there any build advice for making a more proactive rather than reactive Warlord? A Warlord that does unto others as well as helps his team?
-Z

 

[Danceofmasks]

What exactly are you trying to do?
If you want to charop a combat machine, I'm sure you can get lots of help.
I guess what I'm asking is, whose (non leader role) toes do you wish to step on?

 

[Obryn]

Gosh, the Warlord in my recent game kind of rocked.

He was a Dwarf Inspiring Warlord, using a Maul. He had considerable damage output, and was just moving the party all over the place to help their effectiveness.

Remember that a Warlord's primary purpose is to help their party. If you mostly want personal glory, it's not the class for you. With that in mind, you can still do pretty massive damage with a good Strength and a good weapon.

I'd recommend using some kind of sword - Bastard or Greatsword. This will let you connect more often, and as a result you'll be even more effective.

-O

 

[Zhure]

What exactly are you trying to do?
If you want to charop a combat machine, I'm sure you can get lots of help.
I guess what I'm asking is, whose (non leader role) toes do you wish to step on?

Clarify: looking to be combat competetive, more striker-y, higher DPS per se.

 

[James McMurray]

A Warlord can do that, but only in short bursts. His Dailies and Encounter powers do a lot of multiple [W] strikes. the At Wills on the other hand don't let him do a lot of damage, and lack Curse, quarry, and Sneak Attack to back them up.

Really high strength and a two-handed weapon will help. You can add in Power Attack, but you'll only want to use it when you've got a large bonus to hit from another power.

Is playing a striker but multi-classing and roleplaying a Warlord a viable alternative? If you're wanting to smack people around with a leaderish character, that might be more numerically effective.

 

[Obryn]

Clarify: looking to be combat competetive, more striker-y, higher DPS per se.

Please don't take this wrong - but if you're looking for that, why are you looking to play a Warlord?

There's certain stuff that certain classes are better at than others. Warlords are no slouch in the weapon damage category, but they're not fighters, rogues, or rangers. Their primary job is to tactically assist & support the rest of the party, leading from the front lines. If you don't want to do that job, the class is a poor fit.

My best advice is to go with an Eladrin or a Dwarf, take the racial weapon damage feat, and use that weapon. Eladrin? Go longspear, 16 strength, 16 intelligence, and go Tactical. Dwarf? 16 strength, 14-16 in whatever, and go either tactical or inspiring. Go kill stuff.

-O

 

[robsenworldaccount]

ya either see the potential the class offers, or ya don't. I think yer looking to play a striker boss

 

[Nail]

Clarify: looking to be combat competetive, more striker-y, higher DPS per se.

Higher Dam/Rd is quite attainable with a Warlord. ...But you have to think of it as "damage per round" rather than "damage per Warlord attack". 'Cause if you can't get your head around that, the party's Rogue or Ranger (or even Fighter!) will show you up each and every time.

The best Warlord build I've seen has been a Human Tactical Warlord. Go 16 in both Str and Int (the put the Human's +2 into Str), a 13 in Con (for the armor proficiencies you'll want --> Plate by 11th level), and then Chr 11, Dex 10, and Wis 8. All level bumps go to Str and Int, except for 4th level, which goes to Str and Con (again, for the armor proficiency feat).

Remember that Warlords, regardless of build, want the highest Str they can manage; practically all power require you to hit Str vs AC. To help this out, take a +3 proficiency weapon (and a Shield!) rather than the tempting Maul.

Then build around getting your party members into better positions, or giving them free basic attacks. Commander's Strike is the obvious at will, Warlord's Favor is the clear winner for Encounter 1 powers. Later stuff like Beat Them into the Ground (Enc 13) is where yer headed.

Consider that with a well timed Warlord's Favor + Action Point, an ally gets a +5 Atk at 1st level....and if they've done it right, they can use most of that bonus twice that round.

 

[Zhure]

Please don't take this wrong - but if you're looking for that, why are you looking to play a Warlord?

There's certain stuff that certain classes are better at than others. Warlords are no slouch in the weapon damage category, but they're not fighters, rogues, or rangers. Their primary job is to tactically assist & support the rest of the party, leading from the front lines. If you don't want to do that job, the class is a poor fit.

-O

I probably should've taken the time to explain in more detail. The proposed character is to round out a small group of PCs, as an NPC, something our small group tends to do. The DM runs an NPC to give clues, help with adventures, not really outshine or outperform the PCs, as they have a decidedly less that important role in the game world than the PCs.

Currently the DM party NPC is a rogue and built a little less than optimally so as to not overshadow the other striker but I'm disatisfied with his place on the team and was considering a Warlord as a replacement.

After looking over the Warlord, I kept noticing that pretty much anything the Warlord does can usually be done better by a cleric, a fighter or a paladin.

So let me try to reiterate my original question in a better form. In my brief overview of the classes, the Cleric has comparable AC, damage and team buffs, with better heals, more ranged/radiant damage, better controls and probably very similar [W] effects.

What does a Warlord bring to the table that a Cleric doesn't? How could I build a Warlord at level 3 that would be any more useful to a party than a Cleric or at least as useful.
-Z

 

[MrMyth]

Well, let's look at the impediments to warlord strikers, along with some other things to keep in mind:

1) No big damage 'at will' powers; two of them focus on letting allies shine. The other two are probably your best choices; Wolf Pack Tactics lets you surround enemies and reliably get flanking, while Viper's Strike makes it more difficult for enemies to get away. Both of these are pretty useful for dealing damage - they don't boost your damage directly, but they make it easier for you to reliably hurt your foes.

2) No 'bonus damage' power (such as Sneak Attack, Hunter's Quarry, or Warlock's Curse.) Thus, you almost certainly want to pick up the multiclassing feat for rogues or rangers to gain some limited ability to get bonus damage. While rogue isn't a terrible choice, since Wolf Pack Tactics will help you set up flanking, ranger is probably a more reliable choice, and doesn't limit you to smaller weapons - and opens up some decent choices for power swap.

3) No 'bonus accuracy' power (such as Fighter Weapon Talent, Rogue Weapon Talent, or Prime Shot.) This is what makes your choice of weapon hard - you can go with a Maul or Great Flail for maximum damage potential, or go with a Bastard Sword for more accuracy (and the ability to use a shield or dual-wield.) If you are multiclassing rogue, grabbing a rapier and Nimble Blade will help your accuracy quite a bit.

4) Damage-wise, your encounter and daily powers are pretty good. Lead the Attack, a level one daily, is absolutely fantastic if you have a good Intelligence.

5) Speaking of which, should you specialize in Intelligence or Charisma? In general, I'd say Intelligence for this build, since Tactical Warlords tend to be more offense-driven, while Inspiring Warlords are more defense-driven. However, this might change depending on what race you want - if you have a race that is up Charisma but not Intelligence, your choice is probably already made.

6) As races go, Dragonborn are the most obvious choice. The abbility bonuses are great, the breath weapon is useful, the bonus to hit while bloodied is very handy. Half-elves are a potentially decent choice, since dilettante can be very handy for this build, letting you grab Righteous Brand, Reaping Strike, Twin Strike, or some other useful power. If you are looking in the Monster Manual, Bugbear and Minotaur let you use large weapons, and a large maul hits for a lot of damage. Dwarves, with the feat to boost hammer damage, can also do decently with a maul.

7) Finally, keep your eye posted for the Forgotten Realms Campaign Book, which looks to have some very good choices. You can see a preview on the rpga site (here) which includes some info on Genasi and Swordmages. Genasi are an absolutely fantastic race for Tactical Warlords, and swordmage makes a great multiclassing choice for them as well.

In the end, you aren't going to be able to build a warlord who does as much damage as a striker - but you can get reasonably close, which seems fine considering you will also be able to heal, buff and control the field.