Help choose new spells.... and Ghost form.

[Rashak Mani]

My 11th level character (5th Soreceror/6th Elemental Savant) just got a level and I am in doubt of what spells to get. I will learn one spell from 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th level.

The Campaign is Forgotten Realms and we are currently faciing Drows... a lot of them. Other groups members are a Fighting Cleric, Paladin, Archer and a Ranger/Rogue.

3rd level I will get Fly. 2nd I just might choose resist elements. What really makes me doubtful are the 4th and 5th level spells.

5th I was thinking seriously of -Ghostform.- Gives bonus vs physical attacks, can cross walls, primitive flying. Hold monsters seems duplication of my Wall of Force....

This is my current "head spell book":

1st MM, shield, etc...
2nd Invisb, Mirror Image, Agganazers (FR), Glitter
3rd Fireball, Haste, Dispel Magic
4th Exploding Cascade (MoF), StoneSkin
5th Wall of Force

Any gaps I should fill out in terms of spells ?

 

[Rashak Mani]

Just a fast question... the Ghostform and incorporeal spells tend to indicate that they not affected my flags.

Or is ghostform subject to fireballs ?

 

[Berk]

2nd level I would prolly get melf's acid arrow
3rd I would get fly
4th I would get I dunno =op
and 5th I would deffinately get kiss of the vampire, can't remember how many times that spell has saved my characters life and actually turned the tide of battle for my party

 

[James McMurray]

I would suggest teleport for the 5th level slot. It is one of the best spells available at that level. Of course, with such a large party, it might take you two trips to travel across the countryside (teleport two party member, teleport yourself back, and then teleport the remainder of the party). However, being a sorcer you should have quite a few slots, and the ability to retreat to a nearby city then mount a new assault after a days of uninterrupted recuperation will be a great boon to your party.

 

[Shayuri]

In answer to the fireball question

A spellcaster using Ghostform is incorporeal, meaning that energy damage or a magic weapon have a 50% miss chance. The only exceptions to that are spells with the Force descriptor, weapons with the Ghost Touch enhancement, attacks from other incorporeal beings, or aburations...which have full effect (after any applicable saves are taken into account).

In addition to those, a user of Ghostform is vulnerable (if I recall correctly) to attacks originating on, or taking place in, the Ethereal plane. That's not generically true for all incorporeal beings though...again, if I recall right. I was always a bit fuzzy on that.

Note that your spells are considered to still effect the Material plane (excepting Touch spells), so your Fireball will still effect your corporeal enemies normally. However, a Chill Touch would only work against an incorporeal foe...though it wouldn't then have the 50% miss chance normally afforded to those, since you're both incorporeal.

It's a handy spell without question. Especially when you're up against creatures with dangerous natural attacks that aren't considered "magical." They're outta luck against Ghostform.

 

[Rashak Mani]

Shayuri is their any FAQ or Errata on this ?

The wording is pretty dubious on this "corporeal" origin ... I agree with you, stil have my doubts, but my DM and other players dont. Still why mention the force effects so specifically ?

As for threats from Ethereal.... Cha bonus to deflection !! Being a sorceror with pumped up Charisma those shadows will have a hard time hitting me.


Berk: Kiss of Vampire is certainly a great spell except maybe against undead. Still its against the general idea of my character.

James: Teleport is the kind of spell that changes too much the game. In the end I will be using my 5th level slots to avoid wasting in game time instead of combat/defense. This typically makes a DM abuse plot lines knowing we can teleport out and rest. No no...

 

[Willtell]

blindsight

How bout learning blindsight and have a cleric cast deeper darkness?.

 

[gfunk]

To answer the questions on Ghostform:

Check out the description of the Ghost template in the MM. Basically, in their base form, Ghosts are ethereal and cannot effect anything on the Prime (though they can see it). To act, they must Manifest (su) themselves. It's my understanding that they come out of the Ethereal at this point and become incorporeal creatures on the Prime.

As such, they are not subject to attacks by Ethereal creatures, nor can they attack them w/o reverting to their base form.

Ghostform is quite broken and we banned it from our campaign. Coupled with Invisibility and Non-Detection, the PC is immune to all non-magical means of detection (including Blindsight). In addition, all of your spells become silenced as incorporeal creatures only make noise when they want to. Furthermore, you can cast spells and step through the walls or floor to render yourself immune to damage.

 

[Shayuri]

::Shayuri is their any FAQ or Errata on this ?

-- Not that I'm aware of, though the spell description is fairly clear, I think.

::The wording is pretty dubious on this "corporeal" origin ... I agree with you, stil have my doubts, but my DM and other players dont. Still why mention the force effects so specifically ?

-- Because that's how it works. Force effects can target incorporeal beings normally. Magic missiles will hurt 'em, with no miss chance. Mage armor and Shield apply full AC bonuses against their touch attacks. A Wall of Force in a globe configuration will trap a ghost (or any other incorporeal being). Force effects extend into the Ethereal plane. This is all explained in the spell description too, by the way. I'm not sure what you mean about the wording being dubious.

::As for threats from Ethereal.... Cha bonus to deflection !! Being a sorceror with pumped up Charisma those shadows will have a hard time hitting me.

-- Possibly. I'll be honest, I'm not sure the deflection bonus applies to ethereal combat. The line that states, "Against foes in the Ethereal plane all attacks and defenses are normal," makes me wonder if that particular bonus only applies to foes against which you are not solid...ie - foes on the Material Plane.

On the other hand, "naturally" incorporeal beings retain their deflection bonus, so I guess there's no reason a Ghostformed caster wouldn't. Though I will say that Shadows aren't technically Ethereal menaces. They're constantly incorporeal, unlike ghosts which are usually Ethereal only (unless manifested). And there are worse things than those lurking in the dread deeps of the Ethereal... Muahahaha...

As an aside, I kinda agree with gfunk...Ghostform is a bit overpowered for a 5th level spell. Note that I disagree with the assertion that a spell is automatically silenced though. Casting a spell with a verbal component, IMO, is tantamount to "choosing" to make noise (in order to cast a spell). No one's forcing the caster to cast that spell.

Moreover, I'm not positive that Nondetection blocks See Invisible and True Sight. Honestly, I'm not sure if ANYTHING does. Most of the anti-divination spells are aimed at scrying and detection spells in particular. See Invis and True Sight aren't technically in either category.

Still, I do agree. I'd tend to put it at 7th or 8th level, myself.

I'd probably also allow a Dispel Magic to have a chance to blow away the Ghostform of a caster within a solid object. After all, Abjuration effects extend into the Ethereal, and that solid object isn't IN the Ethereal (which is why the incorporeal can move through them). Thus, in the Ethereal, the line of effect isn't blocked.

 

[Rashak Mani]

I agree on the silence thing... you "choose" to make noise.

Unless your casting at an Ethereal creature in the Etheareal plane... then no noise in other planes unless you want to.

Ghostform is a great defensive and general purpose spell... I woudnt go so far as saying it should be 7th level... but its good.