Help for dealing with rogues

[Dandu]

Then he would have to hide on his next turn, since he spent his full round action attacking.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

What if he was hiding to begin with, sneak attack with his primary and off hand 10d6, and spends a move action to hide in the monsters shadow(a -20 to the hide check)?

His "hidden" condition would be gone after the first attack, thus he would need to hide again to get an off hand SA hit off. And, once again, hiding must be as part of movement which means the character must move at least one square. Movement is different from a move action, though one may move using a move action. So if there are shadows in both the square the rogue attacks from and in the square he moves into with a 5 foot step between attacks of a full attack, and he can attack the opponent from both of them, then the hide check could be done. But that's only once per round.

I'm reminded of the Bounding Assault feat.

 

[Li Shenron]

A group of friends and myself have started up a new game of D&D3.5. The party works well together sometimes, but we sometimes have problems. The problem that I keep coming up with is the rogue. The rogue and the bard have a bad habit of taking the biggest part of the treasure and lying about it. The rogue's sleight of hand, bluff and the bard with his bluff skill make it impossible to tell they are lying. An example of this is when they opened a chest after checking it for traps. Their was one thousand gold in the chest but with a bluff and sleight of hand, everyone split 500 of it. The rogue and the bard pocketed the other 500. As the DM I know what they did, but as a character my rolls and modifiers can not compete. Do you guys have any advice to help fix this.

They way we've handled this in the past, which has become my favourite and default way, is not for everyone and doesn't work for every gamestyle, but here it is anyway...

House rule: Intra-party conflict is forbidden. No physically attacking another PC. No unsolicited casting of spells on another PC. No stealing from another PC. No betraying the party.

IOW, I just plain and explicitly forbid these in my games, unless the players unanimously decide together that it fits with the story.

So if the players decide that the Rogue in facts should steal from others and should end up with more equipment, because it fits with the characters and story, then I let them do it. However, if the other PCs discover the thief and the players (once again unanimously i.e. including the Rogue player) decide to execute him or cast him away from the party because it fits the story, I let them do it.

But if at any point even one player disagrees, I enforce the house rule, and it just won't happen.

Because I just know that this leads only to trouble and even enmity between players.

//

So in your case, if everybody is fine with the idea that they all get less equipment than the Bard and the Rogue, and they like the story that these cleptomaniacs screw their friends all the time, fine for me.

If at least one of the players doesn't like this, I would overrule that the Rogue and Bard just cannot do it.

Then I make sure to tell everybody that if they get discovered, it will be once again up to them to decide if they get forgiven or not, but once again they will all need to agree. I won't let them kill the Rogue if the Rogue player doesn't want this too. They should probably know this beforehand, and think twice before deciding to let him steal in the first place.

Oh and by the way, this also applies in the case we're playing an "evil campaign" with evil PCs. I don't care if some players think that evil characters should screw their allies all the time, either all players agree, or nobody just don't ever do this! If they don't like this setup, we don't play an evil campaign at all.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

A group of friends and myself have started up a new game of D&D3.5. The party works well together sometimes, but we sometimes have problems. The problem that I keep coming up with is the rogue. The rogue and the bard have a bad habit of taking the biggest part of the treasure and lying about it. The rogue's sleight of hand, bluff and the bard with his bluff skill make it impossible to tell they are lying. An example of this is when they opened a chest after checking it for traps. Their was one thousand gold in the chest but with a bluff and sleight of hand, everyone split 500 of it. The rogue and the bard pocketed the other 500. As the DM I know what they did, but as a character my rolls and modifiers can not compete. Do you guys have any advice to help fix this.

First, you should forbid intraparty conflict. (I always ban evil PCs in my campaign for such a reason. We had a DM notorious for promoting this, which resulted in most of his campaigns lasting three sessions or less.)

Second, what was said above, you can't spend a round stealing 500 gp, it would take more time.

Third, used a bit of cursed treasure. Rogues can't even cast Detect Magic, much less Identify. They'll stop pilfering potentially magical coins quickly.

Fourth, the PCs are going to notice the rogue being richer.

Another problem that I have is a rogue7/shadowdancer1. With his modifiers he has a 24 in hide and move silently . Combine this with the two weapon fighting feat lets him deal out ridiculous damage. I've tried to look into it and it all seems legit. His tactic is to hide in the monsters shadow. He then attack the monster with a sneak attack with his primary hand uses a free action to hide in the monsters shadow and goes again with a sneak attack with his off hand. Uses a free action to hide again in the monsters shadow. Then he will attack again with another sneak attack. After he finishes he uses a free action to hide again. This makes a total of 15d6 plus his strength modifier. I love the rogue class for the skills and the need for one in a party, but never being able to be hit and doing massive damage takes away from the experience. I don't know about anybody but playing a game on god mode just isn't enjoyable for everyone who actually has a chance of dieing. Do you know if what he is doing is completely legit or not?

Rogues used to die like flies in my campaign. Between low hit points, Fortitude and Will saves, and being glass cannons that draw attention, enemies targeted them and fast.

Hiding is a move action. The shadowdancer won't be getting that many sneak attacks off. Then the monster turns around and kills the now visible shadowdancer.

 

[Grogg of the North]

It has been the standard in games I've been in that even if someone bluffs you, you can still choose to not trust them.

 

[JamesonCourage]

It has been the standard in games I've been in that even if someone bluffs you, you can still choose to not trust them.

Mine rule is always "you don't have to roll, and can believe what you want. If you do roll, you accept the results." It's worked well for my groups over the years, but I know it won't work at all tables. As always, play what you like

 

[MrBauxite]

I'm always in favour of a bit of Karma myself - who's to say that the party might get their room at the inn / campfire raided and (sadly) they discovered the rogue and bard's secret stash?

 

[PBEM66]

Have you tried to add cursed items to the mix? If the rogue needs a 'remove curse', even the trusting cleric might ask where he got that item. Or, have an NPC discover his secret and blackmail him (or simply tell the rest of the party). Or have a distinctive item that a secret cult has been looking for and the rogue is constantly the focus of attacks. And where does the rogue keep 500 coins that no one else notices ("I think the rogue might be pregnant."). I'd modify that roll like an SOB! Get $5 worth of pennies, scatter them on a table or in a cardboard box, and see how long it takes someone to pick up 500 coins. Now stash them in a pouch. Can they do it quietly? Penalize them for noise and speed.

Oh, and there is no way I would let someone hide in a monster's shadow, especially one that they've already attacked.

 

[Mark1733]

A group of friends and myself have started up a new game of D&D3.5. The party works well together sometimes, but we sometimes have problems. The problem that I keep coming up with is the rogue. The rogue and the bard have a bad habit of taking the biggest part of the treasure and lying about it. The rogue's sleight of hand, bluff and the bard with his bluff skill make it impossible to tell they are lying. An example of this is when they opened a chest after checking it for traps. Their was one thousand gold in the chest but with a bluff and sleight of hand, everyone split 500 of it. The rogue and the bard pocketed the other 500. As the DM I know what they did, but as a character my rolls and modifiers can not compete. Do you guys have any advice to help fix this.

If you are letting the rogues get away with bluff only, you may want to consider things like listen checks for the chinkling of coins or spot checks for things like heavy pockets and slower than usual movement. You could also throw some additional rogues in town who are spotting them and decide to steal back the ill-gotten gains. Also, you can have more intelligent or wise team members roll appropriate skill checks to "figure out" that the bard and rogue seemingly have more "good fortune" than the rest of the party. Imagine if the cleric decided to "zone of truth" them.

 

[Wyvernhand]

If he is attacking more than 1 time, and keep in mind that two attacks (mainhand + offhand) is more than 1 time, then with only like, 2 exceptions (not listed here) he HAS to take a full attack, which precludes moving unless he has some form of swift action movement (like Travel Devotion, which doesn't sound likely). Thus, he can play his hide and go die game with 1 attack at +4d6 SA, or he can qualify for SA via flanking or other avenue that leaves him vulnerable to counter attacks, but he can not use HiPS as you have stated. It's not allowed.