Help, give some recomendations of Dark Fantasy TTRPG

This is a bit of an incoherent argument.

(1) Athas has pre-apocalyptic history, but that doesn't make it medieval or Middle Ages either in its past or its present.

(2) Whether or not Dark Sun is "dystopian" has no bearing on whether it is 'medieval' or not. We are talking about the aesthetics and tropes of the setting as it exists, which are pretty obviously meant to lean into ancient and classical city-states rather than the aesthetics and/or tropes of the European Middle Ages.

(3) Even with spears and no electricity, the aesthetic of zombie apocalypse movies are still exceptionally modern in their aesthetics. (I'm struggling hard trying to think of one that isn't.) Conversely, we can't say that Dark Sun is particularly medieval in a similar fashion.
1) Medieval can refer to history. Ignoring history ignores what's Middle.
2) Japan and China both have medieval periods. Blathering on incoherently about Europe illustrates your ignorance and no one else's.
3) Medieval is not merely an aesthetic conceit.
 

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Saying, "bone armor is not a feature" while referencing the dictionary is just beyond stupid.


Here's some acceptable versions of the dictionary definition you chose:
very old : too old to be useful or acceptable (like flint)
extremely outmoded or antiquated

Pre-Edo Japan is categorized as medieval. They had non-metal armor and weapons, even stone and bone weapons. Japan never had any extensive use of metal armor, like Dark Sun. Most Japanese, and Chinese armor was made of non-metals like wood, silk, and bamboo. You completely lost the script.
pexels-photo-931317.jpeg
 

Saying, "bone armor is not a feature" while referencing the dictionary is just beyond stupid.


Here's some acceptable versions of the dictionary definition you chose:
very old : too old to be useful or acceptable (like flint)
extremely outmoded or antiquated
Okay, but here is the first part of the definition you posted:
1: of, relating to, or characteristic of the Middle Ages
2: having a quality (such as cruelty) associated with the Middle Ages
There is a link for "Middle Ages" that further clarifies the term:
: the period of European history from about a.d. 500 to about 1500
Middle Ages as a period of European history is indeed what the Wikipedia article for the Middle Ages focuses on. When it's applied to non-European cultures (e.g., Japan, India, etc.), it generally refers to periods of (questionably) similar socio-cultural developments (e.g., feudalism).

1) Medieval can refer to history. Ignoring history ignores what's Middle.
(1) This is equivocating on terms.

(2) I am aware that 'medieval' can refer to history, and I am not ignoring history, but it predominately applies to a European conception of its own history. This European orientation is the foremost understanding of what is meant by "medieval" or "middle ages."

(3) Furthermore, any setting can be classified "medieval" or "middle" if this is the loose criteria that you want to apply, as nearly all settings precede from the "middle" chronology of their respective histories.

But you are not exactly making a strong case that Dark Sun constitutes "medieval" or "middle." That it's a dystopian post-apocalyptic setting that possibly preceded from a Middle Age aesthetic doesn't mean that it's present aesthetic is medieval/Middle or that people would regard it as a medieval/Middle setting. Did the Green Age evidence a feudal society or Middle Age aesthetic?

2) Japan and China both have medieval periods. Blathering on incoherently about Europe illustrates your ignorance and no one else's.
Jein. We can talk about what was happening in Japan and China during the European Middle Ages (~500 to 1500 CE). We can also talk about Feudal Japan (~1185 to 1600 CE) or China between the fall of the Han Dynasty to the rise of the Ming Dynasty (~220 to 1368 CE). And while I do think that you see "Medieval China" or "Medieval Japan" floating around, I highly suspect that there is a lot of resistance to these terms by the respective scholars of the field as representing European conceptions of history (i.e., the European Middle Ages) that are being projected onto the histories of non-Europeans that don't actually reflect how these cultures view/classify their own histories.

3) Medieval is not merely an aesthetic conceit.
It is not merely an aesthetic conceit, but it is the most relevant concern when talking about whether Dark Sun constitutes a medieval setting or not as this is generally a question of the setting's aesthetics, cultural underpinnings, etc. (Here I'm putting a pin in the discussion about whether D&D is really "medieval" or if "medieval" represents the lipstick on a decidely "modern" pig.)
 

"Medieval" is a good example.
Lets take some things that were normal in the medieval times and even beyond that
1. Most people are illiterate
2. 90% of the population works as farmers
3. Many of those farmers were serve and thus their rights were restricted a lot compared to what we consider to be normal today.

So does that already qualify as "dark and gritty" or not?
 


(2) I am aware that 'medieval' can refer to history, and I am not ignoring history, but it predominately applies to a European conception of its own history. This European orientation is the foremost understanding of what is meant by "medieval" or "middle ages."
You're arguing in bad faith. Everyone knows we're talking about the fantasy genre of fiction, even you.
 



Is it just me, or are most first posts: what game should I play?

Hi, I'm very interested in souls series, berserk etc... So I was wanting to play some darkfantasy TTrpg, I need some systems/scenarios to explore.
Zweihaender is a very good call. I recall another game that let you collect souls, in soul points equal to the character levels of your opponents, and let you buff up your spells in exchange for physical damage. Does that count as dark fantasy?
 

Vaesen is dark fantasy even if its timeline is set past the medieval time period. You could easily change your timeline to match whatever you hope to capture with its rule set
 

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