Help! I have too many players!
- Thread starter Alzrius
- Start date
Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
Don't fret about being assertive, particularly when you know it's not about you trying to be a dick. I really think it's fine if you privately take the two aside before game-day (you don't want them showing up only to not play) and say "Hey, you guys both seem cool, but I really don't think I can run for seven and you were the last two. I screwed up by not saying so right away. My preference is five, but I can probably handle six if (girlfriend) still wants to play. I apologize for the awkwardness." Then stick to your guns.
If this would cause ripples with the other players, you could also discuss it as a group. Depends on the dynamic.
If it were me, having allowed in 7 to start with, I wouldn't kick anyone out unless they were someone I didn't want at the game, ie they were a bad player. But I'd make clear the game was now full, no more players without GM invitation.
I suspect that if you adapt Kingmaker for 6, it will work fine, and chances are at least 1 player will drop out soon enough anyway. Over a long campaign it's normal to go from 7 to 3-4 by the end.
I suspect that if you adapt Kingmaker for 6, it will work fine, and chances are at least 1 player will drop out soon enough anyway. Over a long campaign it's normal to go from 7 to 3-4 by the end.
DumbPaladin
First Post
There are plenty of ways to reduce the number of people in your quickly-growing group that most reasonable people will understand. You could simply ask the most recent people to step aside and wait until there's an opening (last in, first out) ... you could draw names randomly to determine who your 6 players will be, although this could knock out some people you'd actually prefer to game with ...
But ultimately, I would say it's important to remember your feelings matter as much as any player's. Did any of these people consider that they might be making you unhappy (or less happy?) by joining without an invitation, without your permission, and without checking to see if you were prepared for such a situation?
If some people get asked to leave, feelings may get "hurt" ... but that would have happened anyway, had you immediately informed the people joining that there was, in fact, no room for them at the inn.
The cow is out, time to close the barn door.
I have read posts here and on other sites where DM's and Hosts write up a set of "Table Rules". Not House Rules concerning how the DM has adapted the rules used in the game, but rules concerning the conduct of the game itself. These are more useful in a game where there are new players coming and going and not a set group that has been playing together for years.
Along with laying out how new players are brought into the game are issues like:
Bringing guests to the game (whether they play or not.)
What to do with a PC when the player isn't able to make it.
Is alcohol allowed at the game or not.
Bringing firearms to the game (Hey! I live in Texas.)
etc.
Many times players do things out of sheer joy of the game and don't realize they are stepping on the DM's toes or the host's, especially if they haven't been playing long. If the players get this information when they first start the game it prevents having to feel like a heel when you do need to say no to someone. If nothing else it makes the players aware that they may need to check with the DM or host before they do something out of the blue.
I have read posts here and on other sites where DM's and Hosts write up a set of "Table Rules". Not House Rules concerning how the DM has adapted the rules used in the game, but rules concerning the conduct of the game itself. These are more useful in a game where there are new players coming and going and not a set group that has been playing together for years.
Along with laying out how new players are brought into the game are issues like:
Bringing guests to the game (whether they play or not.)
What to do with a PC when the player isn't able to make it.
Is alcohol allowed at the game or not.
Bringing firearms to the game (Hey! I live in Texas.)
etc.
Many times players do things out of sheer joy of the game and don't realize they are stepping on the DM's toes or the host's, especially if they haven't been playing long. If the players get this information when they first start the game it prevents having to feel like a heel when you do need to say no to someone. If nothing else it makes the players aware that they may need to check with the DM or host before they do something out of the blue.
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I heard about a cop player who left his pistol on the game table while he played. To me that's bad manners - and vaguely threatening to the GM! I think "Hang your gun with your jacket by the door" or similar is good table etiquette.
QuaziquestGM
First Post
I have a good bit of experience with this, and can offer some practical advice.
While I was in grad school I was usually running 2 games at a time.
The regular game for the for classmates, and and the "community outreach" game which included visiting high school students and soldiers from the base.
As the games were held as part of a recognized university club at least some of our functions had to have an "open door" policy to qualify to use university facilities...Sometimes I had 4 players...sometimes I had 15, +cohorts, pets, ect...with player ability levels ranging from "can I try" to "it was different in the blue book days..."
I've also have been playing Kingmaker...
So, advice for your specific situation first:
1) Find a copy of The Wizards Amulet/The Crucible of Freya/supplemental material (necromancer Games). Also, The Burning Plague (free wotc) and Hobgoblin outpost (MMIII or II web enhancement). Pick a corner of your Kingmaker map and plunk the Crucible area into it. It is a isolated struggling village that faces constant raids from orcs/goblins.....
The civilization bringing heros ( your pcs) can bounce back and forth between the 2 areas putting out fires, and keeping up with the xp ramp....
Also, look for Crown of the Kobold king (piazo) and The thieves in the Forrest.( I forget, Penumbra?) Isolated lumber camp with a problem and isolated river fishing outpost with a bandit problem....Remember the lumber camp / drynad problem and bandit problems in King maker? Relate them.
In short, just make the low level section of the adventure path longer.
2) See if you can find some 1e modules to run/integrate into the adventure path. They are built on the assumption of a 7-10 member party and are usually not too difficult to convert on the fly. Watch out about higher modules though, as the 3e versions of the monsters are often much tougher.
3) Sometimes during mass combat I would have problems with everybody clumping up on initiative. The solution was to x5 the init mods and roll on a D100.
4) If combat ends up scattered across a large area or multiple levels of a castle, i would use zone initiative. Say divide the map into quarters or sixths, or sides of the river, floor of the castle....Pcs and monsters types roll initiative with in their zone. then go around the map clock wise or up from the basement, running events in each zone in turn. If someone crosses a zone boundary they start at the end of the que for that zone when its turn starts.
5) other times i would use a "what you see is what you get" system with the minis. If i have orks, you are fighting orks. use either critter type initiative for the monsters, or "Now it's a monster's turn" with each round "that" monster is the one closest to the PCs , each in turn until the mosters are less numerous than the pcs.
6)
if you happen to have a magnetic white board....
use magnets. a pair of each magnet. One for location, the other for the initiative list. also get a yardstick, forget the grid, and just use the ruler for spell area and movement distance.
7)
No, you may not have a petal dragonfire adept cohort with the entangling breath feat, much less 2 of them. do youself a favor and just ban metabreath feats for pcs unless you like reworking effective ability scores for monsters every round in mass combat!
anyway...
While I was in grad school I was usually running 2 games at a time.
The regular game for the for classmates, and and the "community outreach" game which included visiting high school students and soldiers from the base.
As the games were held as part of a recognized university club at least some of our functions had to have an "open door" policy to qualify to use university facilities...Sometimes I had 4 players...sometimes I had 15, +cohorts, pets, ect...with player ability levels ranging from "can I try" to "it was different in the blue book days..."
I've also have been playing Kingmaker...
So, advice for your specific situation first:
1) Find a copy of The Wizards Amulet/The Crucible of Freya/supplemental material (necromancer Games). Also, The Burning Plague (free wotc) and Hobgoblin outpost (MMIII or II web enhancement). Pick a corner of your Kingmaker map and plunk the Crucible area into it. It is a isolated struggling village that faces constant raids from orcs/goblins.....
The civilization bringing heros ( your pcs) can bounce back and forth between the 2 areas putting out fires, and keeping up with the xp ramp....
Also, look for Crown of the Kobold king (piazo) and The thieves in the Forrest.( I forget, Penumbra?) Isolated lumber camp with a problem and isolated river fishing outpost with a bandit problem....Remember the lumber camp / drynad problem and bandit problems in King maker? Relate them.
In short, just make the low level section of the adventure path longer.
2) See if you can find some 1e modules to run/integrate into the adventure path. They are built on the assumption of a 7-10 member party and are usually not too difficult to convert on the fly. Watch out about higher modules though, as the 3e versions of the monsters are often much tougher.
3) Sometimes during mass combat I would have problems with everybody clumping up on initiative. The solution was to x5 the init mods and roll on a D100.
4) If combat ends up scattered across a large area or multiple levels of a castle, i would use zone initiative. Say divide the map into quarters or sixths, or sides of the river, floor of the castle....Pcs and monsters types roll initiative with in their zone. then go around the map clock wise or up from the basement, running events in each zone in turn. If someone crosses a zone boundary they start at the end of the que for that zone when its turn starts.
5) other times i would use a "what you see is what you get" system with the minis. If i have orks, you are fighting orks. use either critter type initiative for the monsters, or "Now it's a monster's turn" with each round "that" monster is the one closest to the PCs , each in turn until the mosters are less numerous than the pcs.
6)
if you happen to have a magnetic white board....
use magnets. a pair of each magnet. One for location, the other for the initiative list. also get a yardstick, forget the grid, and just use the ruler for spell area and movement distance.
7)
No, you may not have a petal dragonfire adept cohort with the entangling breath feat, much less 2 of them. do youself a favor and just ban metabreath feats for pcs unless you like reworking effective ability scores for monsters every round in mass combat!
anyway...
I once ran a game for 6 players and ended up with 11! I was overwhelmed and under prepared for that many, it was online as most of my games are, and I did the best I could to keep it going, but wasn't able to. I tried doubling monsters but it didn't scale quite right. Best thing, IMO, is to set a number and stick with it.
Now, I limit my games to 6-7 at the VERY MOST, 5 is better for me even still.
Figure out the best number for you as a GM, and stick to it.
Now, I limit my games to 6-7 at the VERY MOST, 5 is better for me even still.
Figure out the best number for you as a GM, and stick to it.
Piratecat
Sesquipedalian
If you're an officer, I imagine you need to have control of your firearm. Leave it in your jacket and it isn't under your control. You really don't want your DM's kid to accidentally find it! (Not that I want to hijack the thread, but it's worth mentioning.)I heard about a cop player who left his pistol on the game table while he played. To me that's bad manners - and vaguely threatening to the GM! I think "Hang your gun with your jacket by the door" or similar is good table etiquette.
I'm a big fan of table rules. They help our games run fairly smoothly.
If you're not on duty, you can unload it!
And if you absolutely have to have it on you, then under the table, not on the table!
I live and GM in London, but we should be moving to Tennessee eventually, I think it's good to get these etiquette rules clear in advance!
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