13th Age Help me 4e-ify my 13th Age game

[ve4grm]

A bit of background:

When 4e came out, I fell in love. I had started gaming with 3.0 (and then 3.5), but had gotten tired of certain things about the game, and 4e was a breath of fresh air. Fighters could keep up with wizards, save-or-die was gone, healing surges gave everyone a modicum of self-healing, defenses instead of saves actually standardized the entire core mechanic!

Unfortunately, after a few years, the weight of 4e began to drag on me as well. Combat length made it hard to feel like progress was being made, classes within a given role felt too same-y. It was time to explore other options.

And I found 13th Age. I loved it. Still do. It kept most of what I loved from 4e, and added some of its own excellent twists. I love the Background system, the escalation die, the ways it kept the combat balance I wanted without making classes feel too similar. Pretty much everything.

But lately, I've found myself missing a lot about 4e.



I miss Paragon Paths - splitting off from your core class a bit to differentiate yourself from others.

I miss multiclass feats - the ability to add a bit of flavour and versatility with only minor investment.

I miss tactical fights - marking, flanking, cover, fights where positioning, terrain, and strategy matter.

I miss forced movement - pushing, pulling, jockeying for position. Part of tactical fights, but not completely.

I miss 4e monsters - this one's mostly on me, but I feel 13th Age monsters default to being a bit simpler than 4e ones, and I just need to remember to give my 13th Age monsters additional interesting abilities. Weirdly, I'm torn about whether I miss rolling dice for monster damage, which means I'm probably good without it.

I miss PCs being able to set up combos - part of tactical fights, but meaning those situations where multiple party members contribute to one amazing outcome. Example: Fighter marks the baddie, while the Rogue gets into backstab position. The Warlord issues a challenge, allowing the monster to attack him, while simultaneously allowing the Rogue to backstab, and also triggering the Fighter's mark ability.


Some of these wouldn't be easy to reintroduce. True combo-creation would require a complete overhaul of the classes, for example.

Others, I really want to do something for. This thread will be for brainstorming and compiling solutions to them. All help is welcome!

 

[ve4grm]

{Reserved}

 

[thanson02]

So you want to roll your 13th Age game over to 4E? That is what it sounds like.

Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk

 

[ve4grm]

Not as such. There's a lot that 13th Age introduced that I like better. Really, I like the most of the skeleton of the game better.

I like how skills work, how damage scales, how spells level up, how (almost) every class has their own feel.

I just want to take some of what I liked about 4e and bolt it onto 13th Age.

 

[ve4grm]

Here's the ideas I've been tossing around so far.


Tactical Combats

In most fights, use 13th Age rules as written. During big or set-piece battles, do the following:

• Give everyone Speed 6.
• Add in Flanking/Combat Advantage.
• Moving around someone (from a threatened square to another threatened square) required a disengage check just as moving away does, or else provokes an OA.
• Give basic cover rules (basically as 4e or 5e, minor defensive bonus, can block line of sight).
• (EDITED) Nearby becomes 6 squares. Far away becomes 12 squares. Close Nearby becomes a Blast (originates from you).
• Multi-target spells become "X by X area" where X is the die type. Targets include allies if they're in the area.
  • So Denial's 1d4 nearby enemies in a group becomes a 4x4 area within range 6.
  • Color Spray's 1d4 nearby enemies in a group becomes a Blast 4, since it's a Close spell.
  • Fireball's reckless cast (2d3 enemies but also allies) becomes a 6x6 area, plus any allies engaged with targets (so no hitting with just the edge of the fireball).
  • Other weird spells on a case by case basis.

Forced Movement

When in Tactical mode

• Remove "Pop Free".
• Replace with "Slide X"
  • Slide 2 for at-wills.
  • Slide 4 for encounter or recharge powers.
  • Slide 6 for daily powers.
  • Double distance if it only targets yourself.

 

[Garthanos]

I would be intrigued about what could be stolen and brought back in to 4e...

 

[ve4grm]

That's the other way to go about it, for sure.

 

[JeffB]

Other than I feel 4e monsters have more variety, and I prefer a couple 4e classes over their 13th Age counterparts, I guess I like how 13th Age handles most things vs. what you [MENTION=63492]ve4grm[/MENTION] mentioned you prefer in 4e.

Before 13th Age came out, I stripped down 4e quite a bit for my kids group. I eliminated the grid, replacing/rewriting powers with similar abstractness (?) as 13A did, or just eliminating things that were too tied to the grid. I think you may want to incorporate some 13A into your 4e instead of vice-versa.

E.g. I got rid of marking (not a big deal as we only had a slayer). Powers would have something like "affects 1d3 creatures at short range". I would get onto the Monster Builder in DDI and just re-write/change the powers of Monsters/NPCs and print them out. This is something I dearly miss. For all the hate they got, I loved the DDI tools for tweaking and printing out monsters/items, etc.

 

[Arilyn]

Remember, with 13th Age, you can swap abilities between classes fairly easily, as long as they roughly balance. This can help with the feel of multi-class feats that you said give you a little feel from another class. As far as monsters go, I feel 13th age critters have lots of options to them. Not sure what's more interesting about 4e critters. Because of the way 13th Age handles movement and ranges, I though it might be hard to incorporate grid tactics, but it sounds like you've solved that. Some classes like the commander and occultist have interrupts that help other players. Not exactly combos though, but heading in right direction?

I feel because of the nature of 13th Age, it is customizable, but takes some effort and thought. Definitely, my favourite D20 fantasy game.

 

[ve4grm]

Remember, with 13th Age, you can swap abilities between classes fairly easily, as long as they roughly balance. This can help with the feel of multi-class feats that you said give you a little feel from another class. As far as monsters go, I feel 13th age critters have lots of options to them. Not sure what's more interesting about 4e critters. Because of the way 13th Age handles movement and ranges, I though it might be hard to incorporate grid tactics, but it sounds like you've solved that. Some classes like the commander and occultist have interrupts that help other players. Not exactly combos though, but heading in right direction?

I feel because of the nature of 13th Age, it is customizable, but takes some effort and thought. Definitely, my favourite D20 fantasy game.

Talent swapping will definitely be part of it, but that's a fairly major investment. I'd like to have something feat-sized available as well. That said, my ideas for Paragon Paths might be how I introduce minor "multiclassing" too.

Yeah, the monster thing is mostly a reminder to me to incorporate those lessons learned from 4e when making monsters. As for what 4e monsters have that 13th Age tends not to? Generally things like auras, interrupts/reactions, etc. Stuff that's interesting, but more work to keep track of. I don't mind a little bit of work, so I need to remember to add such abilities when it fits.

Combos may be a lost cause outside of the classes you mentioned, and that's fine. They're a relatively minor part of what I want, anyways. If I can develop a Paragon-Path-ish system that doesn't unbalance things, and have a working set of tactical rules that we can drop down to when the situation calls for it, I'll be happy.