Help me create a Deulist, please!

[Dark Jezter]

Where did you get these stats for Jarlaxle? Are they from WOTC, or did someone just come up with them (the FRCS and Underdark books both have Jarlaxle listed as an unmulticlassed fighter).

At any rate, Jarlaxle as described above has some extremely powerful magical items. I believe they go far above and beyond what an 18th-level character would normally have.

 

[Michael Tree]

Tessarael is right, the Duelist PrC is a terrible choice, especially in 3.5. If you want to play a swashbuckling duelist character, there are much better choices for min-maxing.

The Bladesinger PrC from the Tome and Blood web enhancement or Races of Faerun, is a great choice for swashbucklers. They have a full BAB progression, add their Int bonus to AC when in light armor or no armor, good buffing spells, and a number of bonus feats. The best route into it is Fighter 4/Bard 2/Bladesinger 5. That will give good mobility skills and saving throws, with bonus feats and weapon specialization.

A straight Rogue is also a decent choice, due to the nasty sneak attacks. You will definitely want Improved Feint and Expert Tactician. If you can get your hands on the Rokugan ninja class, it's even better for your needs, gaining a full BAB and bonuses to speed and initiative, at a cost of reduced skills.

If you have AU, another twinkish combination is a Spryte mind witch with the compensate for size feat and mind blade manifestation (though this is getting fairly far from your original idea). Mind blades are touch attacks and their damage isn't reduced for a small character. If you put your 17 into Strength, it will be reduced to 13 but you can then take Power Attack, and take advantage of you massive attack bonuses with a touch attack, and do even more damage. The damage is subdual damage though, which might be a downside to you. There's a house rule feat being discussed on Monte's boards, which allows a witch to enchant their witchblade as if it were a magic item (a witchblade equivalent of the Hands as Weapons feat), which would be a natural for this concept.

 

[boxstop7]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions thus far. I guess my problem is that I get so friggin' bored playing the tanked-out fighter who uses two-handed weapons for max damage. As I said before, I don't really ever powergame, so this process is kinda new to me. It seems that my desire for flavor and style is nearly in opposition to the powergaming mentality. I really want to play something interesting and unique, but I'd still like to be effective, if not useful. So, again...thanks so far, and keep those ideas coming if you've got 'em!

~Jason

 

[sithramir]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions thus far. I guess my problem is that I get so friggin' bored playing the tanked-out fighter who uses two-handed weapons for max damage. As I said before, I don't really ever powergame, so this process is kinda new to me. It seems that my desire for flavor and style is nearly in opposition to the powergaming mentality. I really want to play something interesting and unique, but I'd still like to be effective, if not useful. So, again...thanks so far, and keep those ideas coming if you've got 'em!

~Jason

Bah. Its easy to powergame and have unique creative characters. Too bad you didn't get to see my monk/druid in action in our first battle. I had 40 ac and did 131 damage to the first thing that came near me but all the tattoo's and other things allow for a cool unique character with a different perspective. Being 3 levels lower than the other 2 characters didn't seem to affect anything as I ruled the combats.

If you still check this i'd just have you talk to me over some ideas and we'll work out something. I think things like bladesinger or spellblade or eldritch knight might be good for you as they are similar to your idea but have some spells to back them up.

Oh and Jarlaxle's stats are a much more realistic version of his character. A pure 18th lvl fighter who doesn't wear armor down the underdark who was the leader of one of the top male organizations is absurd.

 

[Lladnar]

Halfling Fighter 6 / Dualist 5

Abilities:
Str 15
Dex 24 = 17+2(race)+1(level)+4(gloves)
Con 14 = 16-2(race)
Int 18 = 17+1(level)
Wis 16
Cha 12

HP 87 = 65(average)+22(con)
AC 30 = 10+7(dex)+4(int)+1(size)+1(monk)+3(wis)+4(bracers)
Also: +1 AC vs 1 opponent (dodge)
In 2 levels: fight defensivly -4 to hit, +10 AC

Rapier:
Hit: 23 = 11(bab)+7(dex)+3(enh)+1(feat)+1(size)
Critical: 15-20/x2
Damage: 1d4+2(str)+2(spec)+3(enh)+1d6(precise)

Feats:
Dodge
Mobility
Weapon Finesse
Improved Iniative
Weapon Focus (Rapier)
Weapon Specialisation (Rapier)
Improved Critical (Rapier)

Equipment:
Monks Belt
Rapier +3
Bracers of Armour +4
Gloves of Dexterity +4

 

[Dark Jezter]

Oh and Jarlaxle's stats are a much more realistic version of his character. A pure 18th lvl fighter who doesn't wear armor down the underdark who was the leader of one of the top male organizations is absurd.

Why is it so absurd? Considering how crafty and intelligent he is, it dosen't surprise me at all that he was able to secure such a position of power in Menzoberranzan. I wasn't aware that wearing armor was a requirement to be a drow mercenary leader.

 

[Tessarael]

Halfling Fighter 6 / Dualist 5

[..]
AC 30 = 10+7(dex)+4(int)+1(size)+1(monk)+3(wis)+4(bracers)
Also: +1 AC vs 1 opponent (dodge)
In 2 levels: fight defensivly -4 to hit, +10 AC

Rapier:
Hit: 23 = 11(bab)+7(dex)+3(enh)+1(feat)+1(size)
Critical: 15-20/x2
Damage: 1d4+2(str)+2(spec)+3(enh)+1d6(precise)

I assume you're suggesting Fighter 4/Monk 2/Duelist 5, to get the Monk AC bonus. Note that in 3.5E the AC bonus from monk will be Wisdom bonus only at this level. Taking a Halfling for the small size and maxing out Dex is good for AC. Power Attack might come in handy too actually.

That makes it AC 29.

The huge Elaborate Parry AC bonus does make a 7th level Duelist good fighting defensively, and an ok option. However, they are terrible before then, and for an 11th level character not good enough in the meantime.

With similar magic items and feats, the build I gave would have total attack bonuses of +18/+13, which is much worse than Lladnar's build. However, you could use a Greatsword, and your damage would be:
2d6+5(str)+2(spec)+3(enh) = 17 on average per hit, vs. 13 on average per hit with Lladynar's build (9.5 vs. creatures not affected by criticals).

Halfling Rogue/Duelist is probably an okay option for a secondary combatant, and you definitely need a feat that allows you to Sneak Attack undead as sithramir said. Though you'll have worse HP and saves than my build or the Unfettered build. [Side note: the major benefit of using a Rapier is to extend your critical range, try to keep a high attack bonus, and then throw in as much sneak attack, precise attack and other bonuses as you can.]

I think Storminator's Unfettered build is far better than all the Duelist builds. And you have more choice in how you spend your feats. Bladesinger isn't too bad either, but Unfettered is far closer to holding your own as a frontline fighter.

 

[Darklone]

Power Attack with Rapier? Nope.

Another possibility: Take a look at the Basiran Dancer in the Kalamars Players Guide.

Start with one level fighter (or two levels monk), pick 7 levels dancer, then duelist. You'll have some spells, bonus feats, displacement and your AC won't be that bad for being unarmoured.

A totally different and hopefully more powergaming build:
Halfling mnk/rog/ftr spiked chain wielder with Power Attack. No chance for duelist though

 

[Lladnar]

I assume you're suggesting Fighter 4/Monk 2/Duelist 5, to get the Monk AC bonus. Note that in 3.5E the AC bonus from monk will be Wisdom bonus only at this level. Taking a Halfling for the small size and maxing out Dex is good for AC. Power Attack might come in handy too actually.

Nope, fighter 6/duelist 5. In a powergameing mentality (and that is what was asked for) a monks belt gives +1 & +Wis to AC. Even with Monk 2 you'd get the extra +1 from the belt.

The huge Elaborate Parry AC bonus does make a 7th level Duelist good fighting defensively, and an ok option. However, they are terrible before then, and for an 11th level character not good enough in the meantime.

I disagree, I'm currently adding dualist levels to my character. The partial Int bonus to AC, +2 initiative and +2 reflex are all good, especially when combined with full BAB, high hp and medium skills.

With similar magic items and feats, the build I gave would have total attack bonuses of +18/+13, which is much worse than Lladnar's build. However, you could use a Greatsword, and your damage would be:
2d6+5(str)+2(spec)+3(enh) = 17 on average per hit, vs. 13 on average per hit with Lladynar's build (9.5 vs. creatures not affected by criticals).

Yep, I designed an AC beast, not a damage beast. Also I was rembering the old duelist where you needed to use a light piercing weapon to get most of the features, which is no longer true.

Halfling Rogue/Duelist is probably an okay option for a secondary combatant, and you definitely need a feat that allows you to Sneak Attack undead as sithramir said.

Where is that feat? I want it.

 

[Tessarael]

In response to Lladnar:

Monk's Belt at 13,000gp for +4 AC (+3 form Wisdom of 16) is very underpriced compared to Bracers of Armor giving +4 AC for 16,000gp. Good powergaming work! Ok, with Monk's Belt, I can see it being worthwhile giving up light armor and taking Duelist. That is the core magic item that makes this build worthwhile, otherwise you're not getting better AC (e.g. wear a mithril chain shirt instead). Pricewise, magical shield and armor will still give better value for money of course.

Supernatural Blow in Masters of the Wild only applies to Ranger's Favored Enemy bonus damage. I don't know of any other feat in core books or WotC splat books that allows Sneak Attack to apply to undead or creatures otherwise immune to criticals.

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In response to Darklone:

Rapier is not a light weapon. It specifically states this in the SRD and PHB. And while the PHB states you don't get x1.5 Strength bonus for wielding a Rapier in two hands, nowhere is it stated that you can't take Power Attack with Rapier.