Help me create a Deulist, please!

[sithramir]

Why is it so absurd? Considering how crafty and intelligent he is, it dosen't surprise me at all that he was able to secure such a position of power in Menzoberranzan. I wasn't aware that wearing armor was a requirement to be a drow mercenary leader.

Because it isn' t the real world and a lot more fights happen in this fantasy world. Without armor he'd fall suseptable to a drow sleep bolt since noone would ever miss if he's not wearing armor. Can he still do it without? Of course. But if you wanted to play this character in a campaign and try to keep the character balanced you'd have to have a lot of other ac boosting items which i've never seen discussed in any of the novels or extra short stories i've read.

 

[Darklone]

In response to Darklone:
Rapier is not a light weapon. It specifically states this in the SRD and PHB. And while the PHB states you don't get x1.5 Strength bonus for wielding a Rapier in two hands, nowhere is it stated that you can't take Power Attack with Rapier.

The Rapier weapon description confused me... you're right.

Feat: Finding the Secrets (KPG) allows you to sneak attack undead. Prerequisites: Improved critical...

 

[Chasmodai]

My suggestion? Go for the Bladedancer PrC from Oriental Adventures. It's a cool class and allows for slight powergaming.

Build: Unfettered 4/ Bard 6/ Bladedancer 1.

With Bard 6, you get fascinate, suggestion (don't you want to put your sword down now?) and a slew of skills. Ask your DM if he allows the Fleet of Foot feat from Arcana Unearthed (it raises your speed by 10 ft). You also get spells (Blur, Heroism, Cat's Grace, etc, etc.) and 2 good saves.

Unfettered 4 gives you a decent AC bonus, both from class and intelligence. You get a bonus feat and Sneak Attack IIRC.

Get Expertise and Improved Disarm. Combined with the Bladedancer's prerequisites of Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack, as well as the 80ft movement from the Fast Movement ability, you get a character that no fighter in full plate can catch.

Dash forward, disarm him, dash back. A game of cat and mouse that will take a long time to resolve, but its fun to frustrate powergamers like that.

Bladedancer also gives Acrobatics, which is an automatic +10 to your Jump, Tumble and Balance checks. Also, ask the DM if he allows the Parry attack option from Dragon mag - with an opposing attack roll, you can deflect his attack and take no damage; furthermore, light weapons get a +4 to this check.

On another note, you could switch the Unfettered class levels for Barbarian levels - Rage, even more fast movement (this removes the need to take the Fleet of Foot feat) and the all-important Uncanny Dodge.

My two cents worth. Hope it helps.

 

[RigaMortus]

I don't normally try and design characters for people because I think others on this board can come up with much better concepts than I could. But I like the idea of the Duelist and I had some time to kill, so here you go. Hopefully there won't be too many errors in this (if any):

Human
PsyWar 3 / Monk 6 / Duelist 2
Alignment: Lawful whatever

Str 15 +2
Dex 18 +4 (+1 at Level 4)
Con 16 +3
Int 16 +3
Wis 18 +4 (+1 at Level 8)
Cha 12 +1

Fort +12 (+3 PsyWar, +5 Monk, +0 Duelist, +3 Con)
Ref +12 (+1 PsyWar, +5 Monk, +2 Dueslit, +4 Dex)
Will +10 (+1 PsyWar, +5 Monk, +0 Duelist, +4 Wis)

Armor Class: 25 (10 Base, +4 Dex, +2 (Int) Canny Defense, +4 Wis, +4 Inertial Armor, +1 Monk)
Hit Points (average): 79 (3d8+9 PsyWar, 6d8+18 Monk, 2d10+6 Duelist)
Init: +6 (+4 Dex, +2 Duelist)
Speed: 60 (30 Base, +20 Monk, +10 Speed of Thought)

BAB: +8/+3 (+2 PsyWar, +4 Monk, +2 Duelist)

Melee (w/ Weapon Finesse): +12/+7
Melee (normal): +10/+5

Flurry (w/ Weapon Finesse): +10/+10/+5
Flurry (normal): +8/+8/+3

Feats:
(Human) Dodge
(C1) Mobility
(PsyWar 1) Inertial Armor
(PsyWar 2) Speed of Thought
(C3) Weapon Finesse
(C6) Spring Attack
(C9) *Improved Weapon Finesse

*Improved Weapon Finesse is from the "Swashbuckler's Handbook" (among others). It allows you to add your Dex bonus to damage (with melee weapons) instead of your Strength bonus. If your DM does not allow this, I would take Combat Expertise for extra protection...

Skills:
Auto-Hypnosis +10 (+6 Ranks, +4 Wis), Balance +20 (+14 Ranks, +4 Dex, +2 synergy), Climb +8 (+6 Ranks, +2 Str), Hide +16 (+12 Ranks, +4 Dex), Jump +18 (+14 Ranks, +2 Str, +2 synergy), Listen +5 (+1 Rank, +4 Wis), Move Silently +16 (+12 Ranks, +4 Dex), Perform +4 (+3 Ranks, +1 Cha), Sense Motive +5 (+1 Rank, +4 Wis), Spot +5 (+1 Rank, +4 Wis), Stabilize Self +13 (+11 Ranks, +2 Str), Tumble +20 (+14 Ranks, +4 Dex, +2 synergy)

*Note: Used 10 Duelist Skill points on Stablize Self, as a cross-class skill. Now you will only need to roll a 2 or higher on Stablize Self when dropped below 0 hit points.
*Also: If your DM does not allow you to cross-class Stabilze Self with the Duelist, I recommend spreading the 10 points into Listen, Spot and Sense Motive.

Skill break-down
24 Skill points at level 1 (PsyWar), +6 at level 2 (PsyWar), +6 at level 3 (PsyWar), +8 at level 4 (Monk), +8 at level 5 (Monk), +8 at level 6 (Monk), +8 at level 7 (Monk), +8 at level 8 (Monk), +8 at level 9 (Monk), +8 at level 10 (Duelist), +8 at level 11 (Duelist)

Monk Class Abilities:
At first level, select either Improved Grapple of Stunning Fist (my recommendation).
Flurry of Blows
Unarmed Strike (1d8 Magic damage)
At second level, select either Combat Reflexes (only if you decide to use a reach weapon) or Deflect Arrows (my recommendation)
Evasion
Still Mind
Slow Fall (30 Feet)
Purity of Body
At sixth level, select either Improved Disarm (my recommendation) or
Improved Trip (only if you decide to use a trip Weapon).
You get +20 Movement (already calculated above).
You get +1 AC Bonus (already calculated above).

PsyWar Class Abilities:
Power Points: 4
*You can manifest (5) 0th level powers for free each day, after which it will cost you 1 Power Point to manifest them.

0th level powers (you get 3 total): your choice

1st level powers (you get 1 total): your choice

You get 3 Psionic Combat Modes (your choice)

The Psionic Powers you get won't be very important to this character concept, so I wouldn't worry about them too much. The main reason I incorporated a PsyWar into this build is to get Inertial Armor, Speed of Thought, and some bonus feats. The only recommendation I would make is to take powers that are not "attacks" or do not require saving throws to be made (such as Burst, Catfall or Talons).

Duelist Class Abilities:
Canny Defense - At this point, it is only +2 to AC.
Improved Reaction - +2 to Init (already calculated above).

How to use this character:
It doesn't really matter what weapon you use, until you get Precise Strike. Once you get Precise Strike, I would use a piercing Monk weapon such as a siangham (which I think is the ONLY piercing Monk weapon). This will allow you to Flurry of Blows with the siangham, Weapon Finesse with the siangham, and you'll also gain the benefits of Precise Strike. Strike once with the siangham, and then continue the Flurry of Blows with other parts of your body (head, elbow, knee, or even fists). The wording on the Duelist class says that When making a precise strike, a duelist cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield. As you can see, you won't be attacking with a weapon in your hand, you'll be either attack with the hand itself, or another part of the body. Utilize your speed and Spring Attack. You have a good AC of 25, and nice saving throws too. If your DM allows you to get Improved Weapon Finesse you'll be doing some nice damage. If not, use Combat Expertise to pump up your AC when needed.

I hope this helps, good luck!

PS - I didn't have time to incorporate any magic items, so feel free to assume you can boost up your AC some (Gloves of Dex, etc.) as well as your siangham.

 

[Desdichado]

A few suggestions:

• Spell it duelist, not deulist!
• Find a different group to play with, unless of course, these guys are really good friends. In which case, talk to them about your differences in play style and how it's affecting the fun of the game.
• You might want to look along the lines of a monk. As their levels get higher, they become harder and harder to actually hit, so they tend to last a long time in combat. Of course, they have to because they don't dish out tons of damage, but that's kinda the hallmark of a swashbuckling duelist type of character as well.
• Take improved critical types of feats. If you're not dealing out tons of damage on a regular basis, at least give yourself the opportunity to score some critical hits to make up for the gap.
• Maybe take a level of sorceror first, and take Mage Armor as one of your spells?

 

[Ukyo the undead]

"A straight Rogue is also a decent choice, due to the nasty sneak attacks. You will definitely want Improved Feint and Expert Tactician. If you can get your hands on the Rokugan ninja class, it's even better for your needs, gaining a full BAB and bonuses to speed and initiative, at a cost of reduced skills

Where's this Improved Feint feat

 

[Tessarael]

Improved Feint is in the 3.5E PHB and SRD.

 

[Zaruthustran]

If you're fighting other party members you know exactly what you'll be fighting. We need this information if we're to design a killer character for you.

Operating without this information, I suggest:

Rogue 10/Shadowdancer 1
Str 18, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 15, Wis 16, Cha 12

Hide in Plain Sight is effectively Invisibility at Will, and unless the people you're fighting have maxed out Spots they won't be able to see you.

If they can't see you they can't kill you.

If they can't see you they lose their Dex, which means you can sneak attack them.

If they can't see you they lose their Dex, which means you get a free sneak attack from Expert Tactician.

If they can't see you then you can take a break to heal yourself with potions or wands whenever you want, without provoking AoOs. If your opponents try the same thing they'll provoke an Attack of Opportunity from you, and that AoO will be a sneak attack.

Take your Rogue special ability as Crippling Strike. All these sneak attacks will also do 2 points of Str damage (each). Target spellcasters first (they can screw you with Faerie Fire or Glitterdust). Since spellcasters tend to have low Str you might be able to render them helpless with just one or two rounds of attacks (2 attacks from BAB, 1 from Haste, 1 from Expert Tactician = 8 Str damage).

Feats:
1. Dodge, Mobility
3. Combat Reflexes
6. Spring Attack
9. Expert Tactician

Use a longspear and spring attack at first, and hide as you spring in and as you move out (hide does not take an action; it's done during a move). They won't know where you are. If they come at you they'll provoke AoOs. Once the wizards are down you can risk a few full attacks on any opponents you can seperate from the pack. Remember that a fighter without a full attack is not very dangerous, but a fighter with a full attack is extremely dangerous. If one of your opponents uses a two-handed weapon be sure to hit him with your Crippling Strike--the Str damage will hurt him more than it will hurt a one-handed weapon user.

For magic items, get:
A Wounding longspear +1 (18,305)
Elven Cloak (2,500), +5 to Hide
Fortified Improved Shadow leather armor of Spell Resistance (13) +1 (31,160) +10 to Hide
Bead of Force (3,000) -- use this to remove the party fighter or anyone who has a chance at Spotting you.
1 potion of Haste (750)
1 potion of Displacement (750)
4 potions of Resist energy (1 each for fire, cold, lightning, sonic) 30 (potion) 4,400 gp
4 Potions (Bull's Strength, Bear Endurance, Cat's Grace, Owl's Wisdom) 1,200

That's 62,065. Spend the rest on healing items.

Also get armor spikes and spiked gauntlets, so you still threaten at 5' and can TWF if want to.


-z

....or you could be cheesy, make an racher, and buy a bow and a bunch of arrows of slaying (they're only 4,000 gp each).

 

[Michael Tree]

I though it might be interesting to resurrect this thread, since the Complete Warrior makes duelists a much more attractive option.


Elven Swashbucker 3 / Barbarian 2 / Monk 2 / Duelist 4
- Yes I know this is weird for alignment reasons, but you did say you wanted to min-max. Assume he started as a monk and then turned neutral or chaotic.

Attributes (including level bonuses, but not including magic items or spells).

Str: 15
Dex: 20
Con: 14
Int: 18
Wis: 16
Cha: 12
(If making the character for myself, I'd probably exchange the Str and Cha for roleplaying reaons, but this is a better min-max)

Feats:
(Using the "Cobra Strike" martial arts school to choose monk bonus feats, from Dragon #310)

- Dodge (Monk bonus feat)
- Mobility (Monk bonus feat)
- Weapon Finesse (Swashbuckler bonus feat)
- Improved Weapon Proficiency (so you can use a thinblade and lightblade)
- TWF
- Improved TWF
- Elusive Target (tactical feat from CW)

Class abilities:
Uncanny dodge (dex)
Evasion
Fast Speed +10
Rage 1/day
Unarmed damage 1d6
Insightful Strike (+Int bonus to finessable weapon damage)

(All the following are before any magic items or spells)
Armor Class: 22
Attack bonus (w/ finessable weapon): +15/+10
Thinblade damage: 1d8+6 18-20/x2 (make this a keen weapon)
Lightblade in off hand: 1d6+5 18-20/x2 (make this a keen weapon)
- When you gain your 5th duelist level at 12th level, the damage on both of these goes up by +1d6, you gain an additional iterative attack, you can take the Greater TWF feat for an additional off-hand attack, and you can raise your Strength by 1. Then you become truly nasty.)

Fort: +12
Ref: +14
Will: +8

_Skills_
Max out tumble, jump, listen and spot. You'll probably also want some balance ranks, and bluff is always fun. Fortunately you have lots of skill points, so you can dabble in a few things.

_Magic items_
Naturally you'll want keen magical weapons with extra elemental damage, some form of magical armor bonus, and boosting items for Dex and Int (and maybe cheap +2 items for Str and Wis).