Help me decide what superhero rpg to play

2. I don't know how the HERO system works, so I made an assumption based on the previous guess/assumption and it's use as an opposite to M&M.
FYI... both Champions and M&M are classless, point-buy, effects-based, toolkit systems.

The biggest difference between them is in Champions, players get a big lump of build points to buy character abilities with. In M&M, they get a similar lump, but with the added restriction that they can only spend a certain amount of points on any one given ability/power. This limit is referred as the Power Limit, or PL, of the campaign.
 

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Well, it being d20 derived is one strike against it for me...to me its just a very boring game.
Because of the flat probability curve of a d20 such that every outcome is equally likely and thus the game is very random? Or something else?
M&M just seems like it kept to much from its d20 heritage and its just one, large, clump of subsystems within a system that, for me, just do not mesh well with each other.
I suppose the difference is that for someone like me I can analyze the subsystems and understand how they're all connected. I can build feats, I can alter ability scores and skills or do away with them in their current form, I even think about messing with saves sometimes. For you it's probably that you just see the presented face and don't want to waste your time breaking it apart yourself. It's understandable: you want a game with more transparent structure. I prefer something less open because at a certain point of that I wonder why one needs then to bother with a game system rather than just roleplaying without rules.
The biggest difference between them is in Champions, players get a big lump of build points to buy character abilities with. In M&M, they get a similar lump, but with the added restriction that they can only spend a certain amount of points on any one given ability/power. This limit is referred as the Power Limit, or PL, of the campaign.
I once heard about some limit in HERO about the number of points that could be spent on a single power. It was set or could be ignored by the GM, just like PL.
 

In M&M, they get a similar lump, but with the added restriction that they can only spend a certain amount of points on any one given ability/power.

Small but important difference. PL doesn't limit the points spent, it limits the effects gained. So a character that spends 50 points to have a power at rank 10 and a character that spends 4 points to have the same base effect (with very different extra effects) at rank 10 are both capped at rank 10 (the PL) not the 50 points.
If they were capped by points then second character could have something like 150 ranks in the power (ain't nobody making a DC 165 toughness save).
Yeah, you probably know that, but it's important when explaining it to others.

HERO has a few different limit knobs to play with (effect caps, point caps, or both) but by default doesn't use any of them.


Stacie, it might help to realize that the entirety of M&M is designed to be resolved with the mechanic "Roll 1d20, add stuff, and compare to a DC." Then, as a style thing, they made the game defensively oriented (it's not how well you got hit that matters, it's how well your resist that matters). All the other stuff is giving you abilities to attack with (powers), abilities to resist with (saves), "normal" abilities (attributes & skills), or abilities that connect the other categories (feats).
If that doesn't do it for you ... well, thanks for playing, have a good day. :D
 
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And yet, here your own signature (not to mention, IIRC, your rather enthusiastic posting about e20) betrays you. . . Now, *I* am confused. :confused:

And again. . . :lol:

And again. . . :)

And one last time, just for good measure! :p

There's no betrayal of my own, and if your going to mock me for my reasons than you can go to hell. Simple as that. If you don't want to agree thats fine, but don't mock me because of my reasons that make sense to me. See you in hell someday.

Admin here. This was fine until you got to the "Go to Hell" stuff. Stacie, in the future please report problematic posts by using the little triangular "!" to the left of every post. That's far better than arguing. Thanks - Piratecat
 
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Small but important difference. PL doesn't limit the points spent, it limits the effects gained. So a character that spends 50 points to have a power at rank 10 and a character that spends 4 points to have the same base effect (with very different extra effects) at rank 10 are both capped at rank 10 (the PL) not the 50 points.
If they were capped by points then second character could have something like 150 ranks in the power (ain't nobody making a DC 165 toughness save).
Yeah, you probably know that, but it's important when explaining it to others.

HERO has a few different limit knobs to play with (effect caps, point caps, or both) but by default doesn't use any of them.


Stacie, it might help to realize that the entirety of M&M is designed to be resolved with the mechanic "Roll 1d20, add stuff, and compare to a DC." Then, as a style thing, they made the game defensively oriented (it's not how well you got hit that matters, it's how well your resist that matters). All the other stuff is giving you abilities to attack with (powers), abilities to resist with (saves), "normal" abilities (attributes & skills), or abilities that connect the other categories (feats).
If that doesn't do it for you ... well, thanks for playing, have a good day. :D

I will have a good day, and I'm tired of being mocked on this thread for how I see the game so peace out. Just because someone doesn't get it and can't really explain it does not mean it gives others the right to mock that person because they don't get the game.

Whatever... I'm done with this thread.

Thanks for helping somebody feel welcome, because its obvious that some of you have problems with people who don't like all the games that you do for whatever their reason happens to be.

As for my comments about M&M and e20, these are two totally seperate beasts that try to do different things, and yes I am enthusiastic about e20 because I think it will be a great game. So don't ridicule me because of it either.

If you all like M&M than like it. I'll never touch the damn game again even if it came gift wrapped by god himself, tell him to take the game back to the abyss from which it came.
 



Just because someone doesn't get it and can't really explain it does not mean it gives others the right to mock that person because they don't get the game.
Well, I'm not sure anyone actually did that. I certainly didn't.

Thanks for helping somebody feel welcome, because its obvious that some of you have problems with people who don't like all the games that you do for whatever their reason happens to be.
Not at all! In fact, I've made it clear time and time again that that isn't the case. I couldn't care less what games other people like or dislike. Seriously! :D

However, if a person seems to have a habit of vaguely and/or erroneously picking holes in a system I'm familiar with -- whether I like it or not (I've done this more than once 'for the sake of' 4e, for example) -- I might feel inclined to challenge that, by way of asking questions. This is what I've done, and the answers only went around in circles, unfortunately. In the end, it seemed a bit ironic that. . . yeah well, been there. :)

I'll never touch the damn game again even if it came gift wrapped by god himself, tell him to take the game back to the abyss from which it came.
Au contraire. Steve Kenson is a veritable god of game design, and not what I would call of evil alignment. Just guessin'.


There's no betrayal of my own, and if your going to mock me for my reasons than you can go to hell. Simple as that. If you don't want to agree thats fine, but don't mock me because of my reasons that make sense to me. See you in hell someday.
*shrug* No idea where I'll be ending up. But anyway, all I was doing is pointing out what seemed to me a glaring error of logic. I'm not the only one who does this on a semi-regular basis on these boards. If the way I did it has offended you (IF?! :p) then, for what it's worth, I am sorry you feel that way about it.

I could've been more tactful and less flippant, I know. Well anyway, er, hope it (and associated stuff) doesn't dissuade you from posting here. That was never an intended consequence, again for what it's worth.

Peace and good gaming.
 

Yes he is, speaking of Mr. Kensen, and I am looking forward to his next supers game, which is more my style.... Icons looks sweet. :)

Sorry if I overreacted...we will agree to disagree you and I Mr. Snow, and call it good on that and keep gaming with the games we each like.
 

Guys, see my notes above. It's fine to disagree with one another, but don't get snide or take personal shots. Those things make Baby Piratecat cry.
 

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