Help Me Fix The Whip

[Endur]

There is a reason why Knights used Swords instead of Whips in battle.

A sword is a relatively easy weapon to use to hurt someone.

A whip is relatively difficult to use.

Therefore, the sword is martial, the whip is exotic.

All weapons were not created equal.

Even if the whip was simple proficiency, it would still be an inferior weapon choice to the sword.

However, I have to agree that if I were to make the rules, I probably would not have put the armor restrictions on the whip.

 

[LazerPointer]

The armor restrictions make sense to me. A whip is only useful in some situations; I don't have a problem with that.

 

[Khaalis]

I know many people dont like reality in their fantasy but I just thought I would stick some RL experience in here since most of the comments lead me to believe no one here has ever used a whip.

Whips are very difficult to use. They take years of practice to get any form of true "proficiency" with them. Even learning to reliably "crack" a whip without taking off your own skin in the process or without tangling the whip takes quite a lot of practice. To get accuracy to actually strike an intended target - thats a whole nother ballgame. Swords are childs play in comaprison.

Yes whips can do a great deal of damage to someone when used correctly, however, they will do no harm through any form of firm armor like plate or leather and only very limited damage, if any, through armor like chain or even heavy robes.

The fact that a whip does not threaten is appropriate. When you wield a whip it requires a "wind up" to get the whip to the inertia needed to do any damage and the whip itself requires free space to prevent it from tangling and becoming ineffective. On top of that, only the tail of the whip causes any real damage (laws of inertia). Due to these factors, anyone that gets close enough to threaten you cant be threatened by the whip unless you use a rule to say the handle can be used as a sap. Otherwise it would be like flogging someone with a peice of string or a wet noodle. For the same reason, being classified as ranged is accurate. Only the tail of the weapon at 15' out will cause damage, so it is in effect, a ranged weapon.

PS: As for Shuriken, some of the rules behind weapons are just glossed over for easy. Otherwise you would have to impliment Weapon Size / Damage Type vs Armor Type rules...

Just a few thoughts from someone who has used whips (as a novice) in the past to perform with, both western style and renaissance (10' string whips to 15' bull whips).

 

[Kabol]

Oh .. i can EASLY agree that is cant be used on Adj. squares. Like many reach weapons. But To me it's lack of threatening any square does not make sence.
As i see it Threatening is the Area that a Weapon can move, and that in steping into that area makes a person, well feel threatened. They watch for it, and make attemptes to keep away from it. That idea that it threatens no Area to me shows that a whip is .. not a threat. And i dont know about you, but if i had Steal and barbs whisteling around me, Id feel threatened.

 

[DreamChaser]

In 3.0, whips were ranged weapons. This took into account the need for the wind up and the inability to threaten effectively with it. It took into account provoking an attack of opporutinity.

In 3.5, they made it neither melee nor ranged which by ever other rule is like trying to say that a thing is neither a creature nor an object. (Everything either has a Wis and Cha score or does not. If it does, it is a creature, if not it is an object.) The whole neither ranged nor melee thing screws with the paradigm.

DC

 

[LeifVignirsson]

Being a HUGE Castlevania nut that I am, I personally have no problem with the whip. Hell, I love using the PrC with it and really make it interesting. Of course, it is tough without having the spiked chain whip that flames and whatnot... But that is me. Yes, it is a terrible weapon but properly roleplayed, it is a great support weapon from behind the fighters or even as a support to the wizards while they are casting spells. Trust me, I think the uses are endless but they need to be in hands (and brains) that know how to use them...

Sorry, bitter old Belmont here...

 

[Kabol]

"Hell, I love using the PrC with it and really make it interesting"

... What PrC?

"Trust me, I think the uses are endless but they need to be in hands (and brains) that know how to use them..."

.. Im not saying its .. Useless, But what you have to spend, for what you get is very low on the sliding scale. Its a veary useful weapon, but when compared to the other weapons of the trip/disarm ilk, its very underpowered. For the same Exotic prof. you can get a spiked chain < very whipish as RP standard > and get a viable weapon. Id just like to see Whip get a lil more along the spiked chain lines.

 

[Faerl'Elghinn]

I hate the whole "canned character" concept, too, which is why the official support for a "magical supermarket" annoys the heck out of me. That said, I would probably remove the AoO for attacking while threatened with a whip. That would make it highly useful while attacking with two weapons. A ranger could use it in his off-hand (provided it's a light weapon, which it should be IMO)to make a trip attempt, and choose to power attack for 4 for the round. If the trip were successful, he could then proceed to make the rest of his attacks with a +4 damage bonus, while basically receiving no penalty to his attacks, additionally leaving his opponent without the option of making a full attack the next round. Then again, maybe the AoO is in there just for balance...

 

[Doctor Doom]

here is how I altered the whip in my Doombrew system (which has a Defense score and armor gives DR, so thats why the line about not doing damage is gone)


Whip: The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach (10-foot reach for Small creature whips, and 20’ reach for Large creature whips), though you don’t threaten the area into which you can make an attack. You cannot use it against adjacent foes. Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon.
You can make trip attacks with a whip. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the whip to avoid being tripped.
When using a whip, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to keep from being disarmed if the attack fails). A whip does not suffer the –4 penalty to Disarm checks for being a light weapon. If the disarm attempt is a successful the item does not land on the ground in the defender’s area. Instead, roll 1d8. This determines the direction the item is thrown, with 1 being straight back at you and 2 through 8 counting clockwise around the target creature. The item flies a number of feet equal to the difference between the attacker’s and defender’s attack rolls.
You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a whip sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon for you.
A whip can be used to latch onto any protrusion up to 2’ in diameter up to 15’ away. Doing so is a standard action that requires a successful attack check (Defense 14) and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Once a whip is latched the wielder can swing from the whip with a successful Dexterity check (DC 15) or can climb the whip as if it were a rope (DC 15). Unlatching the whip is a move action.