Help me get excited about 2nd Edition.

[ColonelHardisson]

It's just an annoyance, I'm not "really hung up" on them. Can't ask for a damn improvement in the system without the "it's good enough as it is, it doesn't need to be improved" brigade for whom 3E can do no wrong trying to make you seem unreasonable...or even point out that 2E did this better in one way at least, because you could take it from first level if it was your character concept from the start, oh no...stuff and nonsense indeed - you can stuff your own nonsense - that it wouldn't be better if you could give a character a prestige/kit/class when it's more campaign and character appropriate and less arbitrarily system appropriate for archetypes which don't imply high level prereqs - "mate"!

I've gone through a lot of kits from 2e, to see how they translate to 3e, and many of them can be handled with judicious use of skills, feats, and multiclassing. Now, before it seems like I'm simply dismissing what you're saying (I'm not), let me say that I'd love to see "official" treatment of the concept of characters being called swashbucklers or the like from the beginning of their careers. I think that presenting starting packages of feats, skills, and equipment, and mapping out how a character could progress if it was to continue following the path the player chose (swashbuckler, etc.), would not only bridge the gap between 2e kits and 3e flexibility, but also help illustrate how prestige classes can further refine such character concepts. Some will say: "I can do that myself! I don't need an official way to do it!", but I say: "It couldn't hurt to do it."

 

[Arnwyn]

Uh, wrong thread, Colonel. A nice new one was made by Henry!

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I didn't see it until long after I read this one.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I've found since playing 3rd Edition the players seem to focus on the rule more, you know 5ft steps to avoid AoO, move little figure here to flank and get sneak attack. In 2nd Edition where we didn't use miniatures we had folks discribing their ducking under the opponents guard to strike at his exposed under arm and such. Sure you can do that in 3rd Edition, but I've found that with counters/miniatures to move on a board it becomes more like a wargame, and less desciptive.

3e fanboy that I am, that is a fair complaint about 3e out of the box. But I really don't see why it is so tough to yank the miniatures out of 3e.

 

[Remathilis]

Bagpuss,

I'll try and sumarize some of the on topic posts made around here... before the Prestige class debate or the 3e/2e war.

Here is my personal list of things that will make 2e alot better for your group.

1.) Find a subset of rules and STICK with it. Core Rules, Players Options, or Complete Handbooks. Declare a hierarchy of information. That way, you don't have 15 martial arts systems floating around. Pick one and stick with it. Make sure everyone knows it.
2.) Find a copy of Core Rules 2.0 and the Expansion disc. They should be dirt cheap these days. There are still a few sites online with plenty of importable info (races, classes, kits, etc) waiting for easy cataloging and use. Get the patch from www.evermore88.com.
3.) Find some classic modules if you can. 2e still had some great modules. Best of all, 1e modules work with minimal adjustment!
4.) Check WotC's site for some free Forgotten Realms and core downloads.
5.) Peruse the Dragon Mag CD set for new kits, races, rules updates (esp giving Tome of Magic spheres to Legends and Lore deities) in articles and Sage Advice.
6.) Take a deep breath and make what you will of it.