D&D 5E Help me grok mega-dungeons

[RedShirtNo5.1]

@Lanefan

Thanks. A discussion on how to classify these and what else can be included deserves it's own thread. To focus this on the Mouse's question, if I were to pick three products to look at to see what a megadungeon can offer, I would say Caverns of Thracia, Rappan Athuk, and probably Castle Whiterock. And Eyes of the Stone Thief would probably be ahead of Castle Whiterock, but he's already got that one.

 

[UselessTriviaMan]

I have run a few of these adventures over the years, and I'm currently running a Ptolus campaign. To me, the difference between a large dungeon and a megadungeon is pretty straightforward. A megadungeon is one too large for one party of adventurers to realistically explore in its entirety. Undermountain and the Mines of Moria are megadungeons.

Like Sorcerers Apprentice said back on page 1:

What I like about mega-dungeons is that they are too big to explore exhaustively. So when you decide where to go in a mega dungeon you are choosing between what content you will experience, unlike a normal dungeon where you will eventually visit every non-secret room. Makes exploration feel a lot more meaningful.

Temple of Elemental Evil (both the original and the Return to), Dragon Mountain, and the Maze of the Blue Medusa are not megadungeons; they're big, certainly, but they are dungeons that exist specifically and entirely for one adventure/campaign purpose.

The Banewarrens aren't a megadungeon themselves, but they are an area within a megadungeon (simply known as The Dungeon) under the city of Ptolus. The Dungeon beneath Ptolus isn't mapped out, aside from an overview map or two and some specific locales. This was intentional, so DMs can create their own stuff. (I've been using the excellent maps of Dyson Logos for the Dungeon regions they've explored so far.)

 

[Greg Benage]

What do you enjoy in a mega-dungeon? What do you get out of it that you can't get--or at least not get as much--in other D&D games/settings? Why do you enjoy those aspects?

* Good vehicle (massive constrained sandbox) for exploration-focused (rather than story-focused games).
* The "expedition" approach to D&D (rather than heroic questing).
* The joy of unscripted discovery that comes with the above two features (requires effective megadungeon design).
* Characters that typically start as sketches and develop in play (if they survive).
* Campaign continuity supported by The Expedition rather than individual characters.
* "Story" that is emergent, undetermined, not guaranteed, retrospective.
* Player challenge and sense of accomplishment that comes with a successful expedition.

I think this play style is much better suited to OD&D, B/X and (maybe) AD&D. My all-time favorite campaign was a megadungeon in college mid-80s in which none of the original characters made it to the end, and many of the original players didn't either. The dungeon had a "story" that we pieced together over time, and the expedition created its own continuity as survivors recruited new characters, were replaced in turn, players came and went, and despite all the deaths, departures and retirements, the expedition carried on and eventually reached a satisfying conclusion. At the end, you can see the campaign as a story, though it's a story about the expedition, with a huge cast of characters playing roles of varying importance. And even the minor characters can be extremely memorable, either for what they contributed (the thief who found that first nasty trap [RIP], or the wizard who never made it past 3rd level but had that knock spell that averted a TPK), or because of how they went out or because of something hilarious or awesome they did in the short time allotted to them.

I'm a fan, though I think most players were moving away from this style of play by the late 70s.

 

[RedShirtNo5.1]

* Good vehicle (massive constrained sandbox) for exploration-focused (rather than story-focused games).
.
* The joy of unscripted discovery that comes with the above two features (requires effective megadungeon design).
.
* "Story" that is emergent, undetermined, not guaranteed, retrospective.

I will give an example of play from Thursday night.

-The party read about a sage from the "Invisible College" who was hiring "adventures of highest caliber" for an expedition. They tried to find the college to inquire about being hired, but discovered that not only is this wizard's academy invisible, one needs to actually be invisible to enter it.
-The party then consulted a "fortune teller" (who may well be a charlatan) for advice on where to find treasure, and was informed of the existence of a "moth-man" in the north end of the buried undercity.
-At a Yawning Portal analog they were lowered by winch into the undercity. While attempting to find a path to the north, they encountered a swarm of cranium rats. These psionic rodents offered information on how the party could reach their destination, if the party would steal the "claws of Bast," to which the party agreed. While making their way to the buried temple of Bast, they encountered and a fought a group of beastmen; two beastmen were slain before the other two fled. Somewhat injured, the party holed up in what they determined to be the remnants of a paper-maker's shop, only to be attacked by a paper golem.
-After a short rest and some healing, they entered the buried temple. The gnome used his mechanical mouse and some wads of balled up paper distract the panther guardians, then snuck in and removed the wooden claws from hands of the stone statue of Bast. The party returned to their rat overlords, who fulfilled their side of the bargain with psychically bestowed directions.
-Along the path to this moth-man, the party encountered a group of kobolds. There was a quick fight, which further depleted the party's resources, but the group was quickly victorious. Now basically out of healing and getting low on spells, the party pressed on. Finally they encountered the moth-man in an underground plaza. The creature, with glowing sleep-inducing eyes and an insectile tongue that drained life-energy, was a tough fight, but a critical hit finished it. The party retrieved some treasure and equipment (mostly from bodies of other adventurers who had been slain by the moth-man). Extremely wary of any further fights, the party retraced their steps to exit the undercity. On their way out there was a random encounter, but fortunately for them only a single beastman who didn't like the odds. The party fled quickly before the beastman could return with allies.

So in the course of about 3.5 hours, the players had some NPC-based RP (talking with the fortune teller and negotiating with the cranial rats), four quick fights (I don't think more than 10-20 minutes each), a puzzle (getting past the panther guardians), as well as some other miscellaneous exploration and intra-party RP. This seems to be a good mix for us. I had no idea at all what would happen before play began. The players had a lot of fun - there was a mixture of known elements (kobolds) and the bizarre (cranium rats, the mothman) to keep them guessing, and heading toward the end there was definite tension on whether the party would make it.