D&D 5E Help me grok mega-dungeons

[Mouseferatu]

I've been gaming since I was 9, back in 1983, and to this day I don't "get" mega-dungeons in D&D. I've had people try to explain it to me, and I've just. Never. Gotten it. I find even normal-length dungeons boring more often than not.

So, I'm going to try to ask it a different way.

What do you enjoy in a mega-dungeon? What do you get out of it that you can't get--or at least not get as much--in other D&D games/settings? Why do you enjoy those aspects?

(Important background: My tastes run to plot-heavy games, where the combats are almost all plot-related; and to fewer, more dangerous combats. I don't care for random encounters. I don't care for combat for its own sake. I prefer mystery-solving and social/political interaction to seeing what's in the next treasure chest.)

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

What I like about mega-dungeons is that they are too big to explore exhaustively. So when you decide where to go in a mega dungeon you are choosing between what content you will experience, unlike a normal dungeon where you will eventually visit every non-secret room. Makes exploration feel a lot more meaningful.

 

[ExploderWizard]

A mega-dungeon is an expansive yet contained environment. The original purpose of such construction may be long forgotten by the current inhabitants but often there are clues within waiting to be discovered that can lead to finding out the origins of the place.

Keep in mind that aside from the original purpose of of the place, the mega-dungeon is a setting and not a scenario, much like an island or a castle. The mega-dungeon, being so expansive, allows for the playing out of many scenarios and the placement of multiple factions of dwellers each with their separate agendas.

These factions, along with some other non-aligned residents, struggle with each other over territory, treasure, food, and other resources. The whole place will have its own status quo and ecosystem. This then gets upended when groups of surface dwellers come looking for fortune & glory or with another purpose. The mega-dungeon is a living, breathing self contained ecosystem ready to be explored. This in itself does not negate the possible presence of plots. With many power groups all competing for dominance and resources how could there not be!

The large volume of "empty" rooms in a maga dungeon seem to have no purpose but these areas could be used for treasure storage by the inhabitants. The main purpose I have for such unused areas are to provide some separation between factions. The existence of these places is also a a great gift to the PCS. There are areas with unique features than be used by a clever party to prepare kill zones or to simply rest.

 

[Lidgar]

A mega dungeon done right, IMO, is like Sigil - a portal to many different planes or dimensions. Each level or area of a dungeon has a theme, with it's own antagonist, most often the pawn of the greater antagonist that created the dungeon.

This allows the DM to get really creative. Some areas can be gonzo, others are mini stories within a greater plot.

Dungeons that are just a collection of rooms with random encounters is not really my idea of a mega-dungeon. But it may be for others, and that's great too.

Castle Maure did this pretty well.

 

[aco175]

I never really played in something truly mega. I always liked the stories of Gygax and his early Greyhawk tales. I als olike the dungeons where there are fractions competing and PCs may befriend some of them or at least get them to fight the other groups. Something like Keep on the Borderlands is more a mid-size dungeon where it can be played in a few levels.

Mega, like Ruins of Undermountain can take PCs from level 1 to 15 or 20 could be easy to DM since everything is laid out and given to you. I was thinking of running the updated Temple of EE which is fairly large. My playing group may get a bit bored though and want to move on after a few months of dungeon though.

 

[Ovarwa]

Hi,

If you dislike dungeons, it makes sense for you to megadislike megadungeons.

That said, the features that make a dungeon 'good', by any particular subjective goodness, can make a megadungeon completely awesome.

There are many different kinds of dungeons. The classic dungeon involves a literal descent through increasing levels of difficulty, exploration of the environment, extermination and exploitation of what is found there, and finally achieving some objective.

But to my mind, none of these features define a dungeon.

Here's another kind of dungeon, from a (no dice! rare combat! treasure largely irrelevant!) game I once ran: The PCs are honored guests of the king's spymaster, living at his extensive estate. They seem to have the run of the place. Every night, there is a grand ball at the king's palace, to which the PCs, of course, are invited. There are no monsters. There is lots of treasure, starting with the dazzling jewelry being worn out in the open (ok, I could start with the couture) and moving on from there to everything else. Objective? Get out without further messing up the timeline, without pissing anyone off, and especially without revealing that you are not who everyone thinks you are, which is especially difficult because your gracious host neglected to mention that he is the king's spymaster. Exploration? Lots, especially because there is so much the PCs would love to know about this era and its people, and about how to solve their major problem. Dangers? Many, not the least of which is being seduced or tempted.

Why do I think of my design as a dungeon?

* It has constrained boundaries that are difficult to leave.
* It has clear victory conditions.
* It is an environment worth exploring.
* Different kinds of challenges are constrained to specific rooms and "rooms".
* Opportunities and challenges are paired.
* The pacing is almost entirely driven by player decisions, especially about what to explore and when. Many dungeons don't have this feature, but most of the classics do.

There are many good ways to do things, but dungeons of various kinds do work for a segment of a campaign, every segment of a campaign, or even the campaign itself.

Sigil was mentioned earlier. Other examples exist, even in literature. Hunger Games I and II are obvious examples, but Dhalgren is a kind of dungeon too. So is Vegas in Showgirls. I hesitate to include Buffy's Sunnydale here, probably because the place has tertiary importance. Escape from NY works, though. There are many, many examples.

Constrain the setting, fill it with neighborhoods and set pieces that offer dangers and rewards, cohere it through theme and consistency, and let the PCs loose to explore, and maybe you've got yourself a dungeon, or even a mega-dungeon, whether the danger comes from orcs and beholders, from a duellist after saying the wrong thing at a fancy party, or from an attorney.

Anyway,

Ken

 

[RedShirtNo5.1]

I'm currently running a sandbox with a megadungeon tentpole. We're about 6 sessions in, and it's been one of the most enjoyable play experiences in years, although that may be due in part to switching to 5e, which seems to fit our group well. Here are some random thoughts, in no particular order.

1. I wanted an game that could be run West Marches style, i.e., easy for players to drop in and out. A megadungeon below an urban center addresses this - for absent players their PCs are simply doing something else in the city at that time.
2. I hadn't run a megadungeon before. I've done mostly serial adventures with plot-driven encounters, and wanted to try something different.
3. The dungeon, and particularly the megadungeon, has an aura of mystery, unpredictability and weirdness. And there's a mythic quality about venturing into a cave/underground area. I think of the piece by Dave Trampier in the 1e PHB of the dwarves and the magic mouth. That's the feeling I would like to evoke.
4. A good megadungeon has a variety of environments and encounter types, along with puzzles, tricks, and creatures to interact with. This keeps the dungeon fresh and interesting; one room of humanoids after another I think would be a very boring megadungeon. The megadungeon should have secrets and a history for players to uncover.
5. In that light, in terms of player types, I think the megadungeon appeals most to the Explorer and Thinker, followed by the Instigator, Power Gamer and Slayer. Storyteller and Actor would probably get the least out of a megadungeon.
6. On the DM side, personally what I probably enjoy most about DMing is the world creation aspect. So it doesn't matter that much if I generate material that isn't used, it just adds to the realm of possible avenues for the players to investigate.
7. It was actually liberating to not have to worry about plot, or making encounters that are balanced to the party. I just worry about making areas that are interesting with a variety of degrees of challenge, and let the players decide where to go. A great deal of enjoyment is just seeing what happens.

Here was my pitch:
On the western shore of the Crescent Sea lies the city of Idalus, home to perhaps twenty-five thousand people. This city-state is the main point of trade between the proud Kingdom of Anuire to the north and the stern Emorian Autarchy to the south. Stretching out to the west of Idalus is a region called the Lost Lands. This area has been inhabited by a series of failed civilizations, and has now reverted to unclaimed wilderness. Moreover, under Idalus lies a vast subterranean complex filled with danger and wealth. Thus, the deep water port of Idalus is the destination of explorers, scoundrels, mercenaries and heroes alike, seeking to uncover both secrets and treasure when adventuring In Search of the Unknown.
In part, either that pitch appeals to you or it doesn't.

 

[Croesus]

Why do I think of my design as a dungeon?

* It has constrained boundaries that are difficult to leave.
* It has clear victory conditions.
* It is an environment worth exploring.
* Different kinds of challenges are constrained to specific rooms and "rooms".
* Opportunities and challenges are paired.
* The pacing is almost entirely driven by player decisions, especially about what to explore and when. Many dungeons don't have this feature, but most of the classics do.

Excluding the second (clear victory conditions), this seems to describe a campaign world.

So my question is: When we speak of "megadungeons", how are they different from the campaign world? Put another way, isn't a campaign world simply a "megadungeon"?

 

[transtemporal]

I've been gaming since I was 9, back in 1983, and to this day I don't "get" mega-dungeons in D&D. I've had people try to explain it to me, and I've just. Never. Gotten it. I find even normal-length dungeons boring more often than not.

I don't get them either. Ever since I first looked at the city map for Xak Tsaroth in that old Dragonlance adventure, I inwardly groaned. Not from the location itself, that was amazing with some incredible potential for storytelling. It was the fact that every room had a number on it and the whole thing was designed to be trawled, as in trawled with a net for treasure.

Sorry, that's not really answering your question lol.

 

[RedShirtNo5.1]

Also, wouldn't a dungeon be the natural environment for an undead rodent?