Help me lose weight

[Shemeska]

By this I largely mean things that are TOXIC. Cigarette smoke, car fumes, insecticides, all of that crap. It goes into our bodies, and we don't know how to deal with it. So it builds up. Things that cannot be removed through the digestive system get put into the blood, and wind up residing in flesh. meat and fat.

No, they get processed and altered by the liver so as to aid in their removal from the body.

Yep, the toxins that we put into animals. Do you know what we feed cows? Steroids. Do you know what we feed pigs? Steroids. Any guess as to what we feed chickens? You guessed it, steroids.

We feed them growth hormones. And oh, we digest it, and it gets broken down. Even if it was capable of interacting outside of its target species it would be rendered inactive by the Ph of the stomach just like most everything else.

I'm not sure if I said this, but it sounds like the new me, so I'll run with it. I'm going to assume I was refering to, say, all the bizarre sugars we have. Like, for example, high fructose corn syrup. To get high fructose corn syrup, without going into the biochemistry, you effectively take corn syrup -- from corn -- and lower the amounts of sucrose and glucose while increasing the amount of fructose. This makes it sweeter and cheaper, but fructose is a simpler sugar that the body spends nearly zero energy digesting.

It spends about as much energy digesting fructose as it does glucose. They're both monosaccharides. And there's not much more energy used up digesting any disaccharide, be it lactose, maltose or sucrose. Fructose however does tend to induce a bit more craving AFAIK.

The Ph of water is zero. When clean, it is good at dissolving just about everything -- including most of the crap we ingest. The water can just take it away.

F'ing wrong. The Ph of water is 7. And it can't do jack to things that aren't water soluble/polar. Fat soluble substrates end up being modified by the liver over time to make them water soluble. But water by itself isn't a panacea to 'flush the body of all those artificial toxins'.

 

[Eolin]

F'ing wrong. The Ph of water is 7.

Little typing error, already fixed. Let's not dwell on what it, seriously, just a typing error. Let's also not tell my physics graduate-student friends. They'd mock me.

 

[Eolin]

Ya know what I think bugs me the most?

That people are so stuck in the science-framework that they do not believe answers can come from anywhere else.

I've issued this: Try a lemon a day for a week. That's 7 lemons -- lemons, which are healthy anyway.Try it with water. See if you feel different at the end of the week.

There's no reason to get into a flame war when just a little bit of evidence can help so much. Go buy some lemons.

 

[der_kluge]

By this I largely mean things that are TOXIC. Cigarette smoke, car fumes, insecticides, all of that crap. It goes into our bodies, and we don't know how to deal with it. So it builds up. Things that cannot be removed through the digestive system get put into the blood, and wind up residing in flesh. meat and fat.

What you're suggesting is, in a word, ludicrous. If I understand this, what you're suggesting is that things we inhale somehow end up in our muscle, fat, and skin? Even if that were true, drinking lots of water isn't going to have any effect on that. This sounds like pseudo-science to me. This idea of our bodies "not knowing how to deal with it" is a crock.

Yep, the toxins that we put into animals. Do you know what we feed cows? Steroids. Do you know what we feed pigs? Steroids. Any guess as to what we feed chickens? You guessed it, steroids.

Animals steroids, which we wind up ingesting. And which, again, we cannot digest. Do you seriously think that ingesting that sort of crap isn't going have adverse affects?

Show me the scientific evidence. What I *think* is irrelevant.

Result? You get fat, and have sugar rushes. You're blood sugar level is all over the map, and you might not even know that you feel that way. I didn't.

Only way my blood sugar is going to be all over the map is if I got diabetes and weren't aware of it. Last I checked my pancreas works just fine. It's Rel, Shemeska, and my wife that have to worry about their blood sugars. And yes, if I eat more calories in a day than I need, I'll get fat. No mystery there. Still not sure how drinking water is going to magically make me thin. If I'm sucking in 3,000 calories a day, and drinking 20 glasses of water, I can guarantee that I am going to get fat. Water has no effect on that.


[/quote]This refers to the amount of water stored in fat cells. Ask any woman, and they'll tell you about water retention. We do it to, its a natural thing for drought. It is *good* that we keep water in our bodies. It is the single most prevelant molecule on the planet and in our bodies -- do you really think human beings havn't been drinking water longer than anything else? (possible exception being human milk)[/quote]

Everything has drunk water since the beginning of time. Until someone invented beer, water was pretty much all we had. So yea, water is great, it does its job well. And yes, we're made up of 98% of it. I still don't know how drinking lots of it is going to help me lose weight.

The Ph of water is seven. When clean, it is good at dissolving just about everything -- including most of the crap we ingest. The water can just take it away.

So, what you're suggesting is that the hydrochloric acid in my stomach is insufficient for dissolving things, and I need water to come in and do the job for me? Care to explain to me in scientific terms how "water can just take it away". What the hell happened to the digestive/excretory systems? Does excess water suddenly override that??

You're mocking what you havn't tryed. I did the same thing. For YEARS. Then, I tryed it. Go ahead, try it. Buy yourself seven lemons and eat them over a week. See if you feel different. I did.

WTF? Where the hell did lemons suddenly come from? Who is this, and what have you done with Eolin? We were having a discussion about water here. If you find him, redirect him to me, will you?

 

[der_kluge]

And you're not talking to some fad-following health food nut. Acupressure is interesting, feng shui is for fun, and I lump magnets for your back in the same category as crystal magic. And I'm going to eat my Doritos even if the "cheese" on them was made from something that fell from space one day. But good, clean water is just plain OBVIOUSLY good for you - as long as you aren't exceeding the structural capacity of your bladder or some such....

I don't think Shemeska or I are suggesting that water is bad. No, I agree that water is great. But what I am saying, at least, is that I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that drinking water alone will help someone lose weight. If that were true, there'd be a book "the Atkin's drink a metric assload of water" diet and it'd be a best seller. If only it were that easy.

 

[der_kluge]

Ya know what I think bugs me the most?

That people are so stuck in the science-framework that they do not believe answers can come from anywhere else.

I've issued this: Try a lemon a day for a week. That's 7 lemons -- lemons, which are healthy anyway.Try it with water. See if you feel different at the end of the week.

There's no reason to get into a flame war when just a little bit of evidence can help so much. Go buy some lemons.

Are you suggesting that I eat a lemon a day, or that I drink a glass of water a day with lemon juice in it. Does it have to be an actual lemon, or will lemon from one of those little plastic lemons do? And what is this supposed to do, actually, that just a glass of water won't do? And will a lime work? What if I just ate an apple a day, would that serve the same goal, or does it specifically have to be a lemon? Does it have to be an organic lemon, or is a lemon from a large multi-conglomerate food-processing corporation ok?

 

[Shemeska]

As to what the radiation level has to do with it, it has resulted in an increase in the number of damaging free radicals we interact with - which water can help neutralize.

Radiation has nothing to do with free radicals. 'Free radical' is a term applied a number of molecules and how they interact on a chemical level with other compounds in your body. I'd rather not get into the exact biochemistry at the moment since I'm currently cooking dinner and I've already been in my lab enough today.

Water doesn't 'neutralize' them in any way. Certain other molecules can (antioxidants in general) but they themselves in overly large amounts (such as too much vitamin E) can cause problems.

And you're not talking to some fad-following health food nut. Acupressure is interesting, feng shui is for fun, and I lump magnets for your back in the same category as crystal magic. And I'm going to eat my Doritos even if the "cheese" on them was made from something that fell from space one day. But good, clean water is just plain OBVIOUSLY good for you - as long as you aren't exceeding the structural capacity of your bladder or some such....

Good to hear

Acupuncture works on some things, somewhat, but not for -any- of the reasons claimed by traditional chinese medicine.

Extra water is neither good nor bad, it's just not a cure all. And there is a thing as too much water actually since it can screw up the osmotic balance of your body if you drink way way too much water.

 

[Eolin]

What you're suggesting is, in a word, ludicrous. If I understand this, what you're suggesting is that things we inhale somehow end up in our muscle, fat, and skin? Even if that were true, drinking lots of water isn't going to have any effect on that. This sounds like pseudo-science to me. This idea of our bodies "not knowing how to deal with it" is a crock.

I know it sounds ludicrious. I thought it was new-age crap as well. Then I tryed it. Near as I can tell, our bodies simply are not very good at handling the massive amount of crap that we are exposed it on a daily basis.

Show me the scientific evidence. What I *think* is irrelevant.

How about how you feel? the changes I've made to myself have changed how I feel, how I look, how I act, and my beliefs about -- at least -- diet. You know I don't have journal evidence, but is what I'm saying so dangerous as to require you to not be able to experiment with it? Are you so focused upon the current scientific community that you cannot do a little experimentation yourself?

Only way my blood sugar is going to be all over the map is if I got diabetes and weren't aware of it. Last I checked my pancreas works just fine. It's Rel, Shemeska, and my wife that have to worry about their blood sugars. And yes, if I eat more calories in a day than I need, I'll get fat. No mystery there. Still not sure how drinking water is going to magically make me thin. If I'm sucking in 3,000 calories a day, and drinking 20 glasses of water, I can guarantee that I am going to get fat. Water has no effect on that.

I want to deal with the first part first. Its got problems. Here's how this works. If you ingest more sugar than your body needs (especially if it is a simple sugar), then it very rapidly is put into the blood stream. You're blood sugar goes up way high. As it is now much to high, the pancreas lowers it. Right, so far as it goes.

However, the pancreas lowers the blood sugar down to lower levels than it was at before. Because having slightly lowered blood sugar levels is OK (even if it doesn't feel good), and it is attempting to make us not *die* from the huge amounts of blood sugar.

So then it goes back up as you drink more soda, and the process starts over. With your blood sugar going waaay up then way down. Mainly because it is to much sugar, and very simple ones at that.

Everything has drunk water since the beginning of time. Until someone invented beer, water was pretty much all we had. So yea, water is great, it does its job well. And yes, we're made up of 98% of it. I still don't know how drinking lots of it is going to help me lose weight.

I explained, you did not listen. Try it.

So, what you're suggesting is that the hydrochloric acid in my stomach is insufficient for dissolving things, and I need water to come in and do the job for me? Care to explain to me in scientific terms how "water can just take it away". What the hell happened to the digestive/excretory systems? Does excess water suddenly override that??

You're right -- the water doesn't dissolve it. If I said that, it was a poor choice of words. Instead, the water flowing through the body picks up the toxic crap and whisks it away to a magical land where it leaves your body.

Fruity enough? What I just said was: Water acts as a cleanser, and having more clean water going through the body means you have more fresh fluids to take away the crap.

Analogy time -- When it rains, my car gets cleaner. When it rains more, more and more levels of dust get taken off. When it doesn't rain much -- or when the rain is dirty -- my car gets dirtier and dirtier.

WTF? Where the hell did lemons suddenly come from? Who is this, and what have you done with Eolin? We were having a discussion about water here. If you find him, redirect him to me, will you?

I *always* talk about lemons. Lemons were the beginning of my life change. Sure, what I'm talking about right now is mostly water -- which is fantastic -- but the cornerstone of my fitness has been lemons.

I'll say it again: Buy 7 lemons, and take the juice thereof morning and night for a week. I felt different after this.

 

[Shemeska]

Analogy time -- When it rains, my car gets cleaner. When it rains more, more and more levels of dust get taken off. When it doesn't rain much -- or when the rain is dirty -- my car gets dirtier and dirtier.

More appropriate to your body would be having your car on top of a machine that collects all the water from that rain, filters it and then continually rewashes your car with that filtered water to remove the junk on your car. Eventually it will need some more water, but it'll do its job fine on the average amount it has already. Adding continually more water will just make the waste water on the other end of the filter (urine in your body) more dilute each time. The concentration of junk in your bloodstream won't change any real amount.

 

[Eolin]

Are you suggesting that I eat a lemon a day, or that I drink a glass of water a day with lemon juice in it. Does it have to be an actual lemon, or will lemon from one of those little plastic lemons do? And what is this supposed to do, actually, that just a glass of water won't do? And will a lime work? What if I just ate an apple a day, would that serve the same goal, or does it specifically have to be a lemon? Does it have to be an organic lemon, or is a lemon from a large multi-conglomerate food-processing corporation ok?

I'll answer your sarcastic questions as if they arn't.

I take the juice of a lemon a day, every day. At least. the plastic lemons won't do, it needs to be fresh. I squeeze my lemons by hand, and usually avoid swallowing the seeds. I don't think they'd be harmful, but I don't dig the taste and texture.

Or at least, make it fresh if you want to proove me wrong.

Excuse the lack of real science here ... but lemons, besides containing a host of good things, makes the body more alkaline, rid the body of toxins, and other things you woudn't believe. I've gotten high off the lemons on multiple occasions, my tastes for foods have changed, etc etc.

I'm told that limes work -- though I swear by lemons. Apples won't do. They arn't acidic, and don't have the proper chemicals. And such.

I've never bought organic lemons. Would if I had the money, but my walmart lemons are doing the job.

Now, I know somebody is going to say that something as acidic as lemons cannot make the body more like a base. And probably call me a tree-hugging hipping. Which isn't to far from the truth. As for lemons making the body more alkaline -- tis true. What I *think* goes on is that the stomach can use the acid in place of its more nasty acids -- so less acid is produced, and the body is more alkaline.

Just so we can be clear: Every morning and every evening, I squeeze half a lemon into a cup, and fill it with warm water. This I drink. Try this for a week, we'll see if you notice a difference.