Help me make a friend's Knight

[Colmarr]

This is what I've got so far.

Cassi, level 1
Human, Knight
Knight Feature: Shield Finesse
Human Power Selection: Heroic Effort

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 14, Dex 12, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 14, Dex 12, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 10.

AC: 20 Fort: 17 Reflex: 14 Will: 13
HP: 34 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 8

TRAINED SKILLS
Intimidate +5, Heal +7, Endurance +5, Athletics +7

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics -1, Arcana -1, Bluff, Diplomacy, Dungeoneering +2, History -1, Insight +2, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion -1, Stealth -1, Streetwise, Thievery -1

FEATS
Human: Master at Arms
Level 1: Toughness

POWERS
Battle Guardian
Stance: Defend the Line
Stance: Poised Assault

ITEMS
Plate Armor, Adventurer's Kit, Warhammer, Heavy Shield, Javelin

The only knight handbook I've come across on the WotC board emphasises Con and Dex for hp/surges and initiative respectively.

While I can see the former, Con doesn't really seem to apply to that many knight features and those it does apply to a point here or there isn't going to make a large difference.

It also appears to me that it would be preferable to have 14 Wis over 14 Dex, largely to pave the way for Superior Will at paragon.

Thoughts?

 

[Neonchameleon]

Feat: World Serpent's Grasp is amazing with Defend the Line stance. If they are slowed (Defend the Line does this admirably) and you hit them again they are knocked prone. I'd take it in preference to Toughness.

If you're going the Hammer rather than Heavy blade route, and your DM allows Hammer Hands to stack with Bludgeon Expertise then you have some seriously nice mobility with that stance (just swap the javelin for a throwing hammer). Hit to push two and follow up.

But the biggest trick with a knight is to have an ally who uses Provoke-tactics. The rest looks solid (and yes, Superior Will is one of the feats you really want - there's a good case for a defender to take all three Superior Defences, although reflex is the weakest one).

 

[Colmarr]

Feat: World Serpent's Grasp is amazing with Defend the Line stance. If they are slowed (Defend the Line does this admirably) and you hit them again they are knocked prone. I'd take it in preference to Toughness.

WSG is definitely on the radar for later levels, but I want the player to settle into the character first. Oh, and not die It's her first time playing a defender.

If you're going the Hammer rather than Heavy blade route, and your DM allows Hammer Hands to stack with Bludgeon Expertise then you have some seriously nice mobility with that stance (just swap the javelin for a throwing hammer). Hit to push two and follow up.

I'm AFB. I'm also the DM. Is there some reason why I wouldn't let it stack?

But the biggest trick with a knight is to have an ally who uses Provoke-tactics.

Why so? At least why so more than a fighter? Battle Guardian doesn't seem that impressive, even after you throw the stance riders into the mix. At least not at level 1. What am I missing?

 

[Neonchameleon]

WSG is definitely on the radar for later levels, but I want the player to settle into the character first. Oh, and not die It's her first time playing a defender.

OK

I'm AFB. I'm also the DM. Is there some reason why I wouldn't let it stack?

Picky reading of the rules. Bludgeon Expertise refers to the attack, Hammer Hands is as a free action rather than as part of the attack itself. I'd allow it.

Why so? At least why so more than a fighter? Battle Guardian doesn't seem that impressive, even after you throw the stance riders into the mix. At least not at level 1. What am I missing?

Combat Challenge is an Immediate Action, Battle Guardian is an Opportunity Action. You get one Immediate per round, but one Opportunity per turn. Which means that if the fighter's used Combat Challenge, he can't do it to anyone else until after his next turn. On the other hand, if the orc smacks Bill on Bill's turn (provocation), the knight can smack him - and smack him again on the Orc's turn if the orc attacks Bill again or tries to shift clear. (If Bill provokes two orcs, the fighter can only smack one of them as both would happen on Bill's turn and he's only allowed one opportunity action per turn).

Part two of what you're missing - and why I like Hammer Hands - is that the opportunities and interrupts happen before the triggering attack. Kill the orc and he doesn't get to attack. Push him out of reach and he doesn't get to attack. (Knock him prone and he takes a further -2 to hit, but that's another issue).

 

[Aegeri]

Personally I would change the race to Dwarf rather than being human. Dwarf gives resistance to various push 1/slide 1 and such forth effects that can rapidly make the knight irrelevant. This helps them keep creatures in their aura and basically enforce their mark. Defend the Line is the best stance and World Serpents Grasp is a must have feat - I'd really get this as early as possible (in fact, first feat). The knocking prone on a hit heavily dissuades creatures from provoking OAs (or the mark enforcement), plus can potentially keep creatures that are difficult for a knight to deal with adjacent (like pretty much every skirmisher published after MM3).

If you're going for human, then definitely pick up WSG with the second feat. This should be a priority. I would also go with using a Hammer, for Hammer Rhythm, Hammer Hands and Bludgeoning Expertise (all of which synergize very nicely with a Knight).

 

[OnlineDM]

All I can picture, based on the title of the thread, is your friend saying to you in his best Clint Eastwood voice:

"Go ahead - make my knight."

 

[Tony Vargas]

The only knight handbook I've come across on the WotC board emphasises Con and Dex for hp/surges and initiative respectively.

Initiative is helpful for a Knight, but not a huge priority. There are few feats or class features that the Knight might want that require anything but STR. The Knight wants CON for durrability.

That's about it. Essentials classes are mostly pretty SAD, so the 'specialist' array often works just fine.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I would just make the Dexterity attribute 13... seems like a waste to save up a stat point...

And actually, it really does not matter how you start your career with... 16 Strength and any combination of wisdom, dexterity constitution and maybe even charisma will get the job done.

You have 2 ability bumps before paragon. Where you want:

15 CON for plate specialization.
or 15 DEX for shield expertise (which does not matter a lot, since the feat bonus to dex will most surely get wasted some time later)
And 15 wis for superior will.

And when you consider that you want superior will as early as possible, you could even take 15 wisdom at level 1 and 13 dex and 13 con. Or if you want more better defenses at 1st level: 13 Con, 14 Dex and 14 Wis...

it really does not matter...

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I just want to emphasis, that the single atribute dependancy of most essential classes makes class design very flexible.

Even a sentinel druid, who is as much multi attribute dependant as you can imagine an essential class to be, can do without exceptional good constitution and opt for dexterity (or int) if he choses so... he just loses out some points to his damage and secondary effects, but can have a nice ranged attack (elf druids get longbow proficiency for free... with perfect attributes for this shenigan)

I like this design idea... it makes you PC much more flavourful... as you can chose your secondary attribute bump as you like...

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=59182]Colmarr[/MENTION]
Personally I would take Hammer Hands instead of Poised Assault because, under the right conditions, allow you to interrupt an enemy's attack against a nearby ally.

And I'm pretty sure there are feats you can take to boost your attack bonus on attacks of opportunity, so I wouldn't waste a stance on it. Actually, even though hammer knight is probably a better optimization, for a human knight I would choose a sword, which would open up the Blade Opportunist feat.