Level Up (A5E) Help me make a necromancer archetype

[Morrus]

This will be released for free on the Level Up website this week. I've started work here, but it's very much a WIP and certainly not yet well balanced. Any and all feedback is welcome.

Necromancer (Wizard)

Necromancer (Wizard) Necromancers are reviled and feared wherever they go. Students of death and masters of the undead, necromancers are able to create skeletal and zombie minions. Touch of Death When you choose this archetype at level 2, you learn how to use the very life force of your victims....

docs.google.com

 

[WarDriveWorley]

I like it, but I feel almost like the 2nd level touch of death and create minion should be an either/or options.

Make it so you can build the Necro as a minion master OR someone who revels more in touch spells. Maybe make a second 6th level ability that boosts the ability for the necro to handle close spells. Maybe a spirit ward ability where the caster uses the spirits of slain creatures they've bound too themselves as a type of protective ward against damage.

 

[Morrus]

I like it, but I feel almost like the 2nd level touch of death and create minion should be an either/or options.

Make it so you can build the Necro as a minion master OR someone who revels more in touch spells. Maybe make a second 6th level ability that boosts the ability for the necro to handle close spells. Maybe a spirit ward ability where the caster uses the spirits of slain creatures they've bound too themselves as a type of protective ward against damage.

I feel like that’s an archetype choice within an archetype choice. I know it’s advanced 5E, but that might be a step too far!

 

[aco175]

At 2nd level you can speak with dead like the 3rd level spell once per day. Can that be boosted at some point to number of times per proficiency bonus or 1/rest. Maybe be able to force answers or see through the corpses eyes to get a vision of something.

Touch of death attacks deal necrotic damage and you get some temp HP, but how/when are you going to punch someone instead of using a dagger. What about creating claws that deal the 1d4 damage to make it useful. It can be an at-will power or some sort of permanent which curse or such. Maybe improve it to ghoul touch at some point.

I like the idea of having minions. To balance it more give up spell slots to keep extra minions around, or base the total number of HD worth of minions off your caster level or such.

 

[lichmaster]

I like what's here so far, and although I agree with WarDriveWorley that having some branching options would be cool, I see your point too of those being too many choices.
As a suggestion, I think it could be cool to have some more necromancy spells that specifically bolster the theme of being an actual necromancer. For example, a spell that you cast on a minion, who then runs in the middle of enemies and goes "BOOM" (sacrificing the minion), or a rare version of wall of fire spell that makes cold/necrotic damage and is made of a ghoulish green flame with lots of grasping hands (anyone passing through can be grappled). These kind of things maybe.

 

[lichmaster]

Touch of death attacks deal necrotic damage and you get some temp HP, but how/when are you going to punch someone instead of using a dagger. What about creating claws that deal the 1d4 damage to make it useful. It can be an at-will power or some sort of permanent which curse or such. Maybe improve it to ghoul touch at some point.

I think this feature becomes particularly interesting when you consider multiclassing, especially in adept

 

[Morrus]

Touch of death attacks deal necrotic damage and you get some temp HP, but how/when are you going to punch someone instead of using a dagger.

When you want some temp HP, presumably!

 

[Morrus]

I like what's here so far, and although I agree with WarDriveWorley that having some branching options would be cool, I see your point too of those being too many choices.
As a suggestion, I think it could be cool to have some more necromancy spells that specifically bolster the theme of being an actual necromancer. For example, a spell that you cast on a minion, who then runs in the middle of enemies and goes "BOOM" (sacrificing the minion), or a rare version of wall of fire spell that makes cold/necrotic damage and is made of a ghoulish green flame with lots of grasping hands (anyone passing through can be grappled). These kind of things maybe.

I feel like a bunch of new necro spells is a different project for another time.

 

[Faolyn]

I might put a gold cost to create minion, since there's one for summoning a familiar. And I would switch Necrotic Mastery to 6th level and Army of Darkness to 10th.

 

[WarDriveWorley]

I feel like that’s an archetype choice within an archetype choice. I know it’s advanced 5E, but that might be a step too far!

I certainly understand that view, but given that Warlocks have archetypes where there are sub-options that they can choose from it's not that big of a design flex and would reward different styles of play more than just corralling the player into one playstyle

 

[WarDriveWorley]

I like what's here so far, and although I agree with WarDriveWorley that having some branching options would be cool, I see your point too of those being too many choices.
As a suggestion, I think it could be cool to have some more necromancy spells that specifically bolster the theme of being an actual necromancer. For example, a spell that you cast on a minion, who then runs in the middle of enemies and goes "BOOM" (sacrificing the minion), or a rare version of wall of fire spell that makes cold/necrotic damage and is made of a ghoulish green flame with lots of grasping hands (anyone passing through can be grappled). These kind of things maybe.

A variation on corpse explosion would fit that well.

 

[xiphumor]

When you want some temp HP, presumably!

Can I carry around a bag of bugs to kill when I want temporary HP?

 

[Morrus]

Can I carry around a bag of bugs to kill when I want temporary HP?

Good catch. Any thoughts on how to change the phrasing to remove that loophole? I'm thinking maybe a minimum 1/4 CR for to count.

 

[xiphumor]

Good catch. Any thoughts on how to change the phrasing to remove that loophole? I'm thinking maybe a minimum 1/4 CR for to count.

I would say you can only have temp HP from one creature at a time. That way an unsuspecting CR 0 commoner might still be used in a pinch.

 

[xiphumor]

Also, this is a lot of fun. I’m half thinking collectively built archetypes should be a semi-regular event on this forum, even if they aren’t official (although they’d be a lot of fun if they were).

 

[Morrus]

Also, this is a lot of fun. I’m half thinking collectively built archetypes should be a semi-regular event on this forum, even if they aren’t official (although they’d be a lot of fun if they were).

I think that could be fun. This one is definitely official.

 

[VenerableBede]

Also, this is a lot of fun. I’m half thinking collectively built archetypes should be a semi-regular event on this forum, even if they aren’t official (although they’d be a lot of fun if they were).

I would love this.

I think that could be fun. This one is definitely official.

This archetype very much pleases me. Here are my thoughts.

Touch of Death
I wasn't able to comment earlier, but I like how this feature has evolved throughout the day. Most wizards never want to be close enough to combat to use this feature, but that doesn't change the fact that it's fun and flavorful. Makes me feel like I've already begun the process of turning into a lich at level 2. The addition of using Intelligence instead of Strength was also a very good move. (And makes me want an adept archetype that lets you use Intelligence for your unarmed strikes. Might be a fun synergy feat chain.)

Speak with Dead
Fun! If I were playing an evil character, I would literally use this to kill first and ask questions later.
I really appreciate the upgrade at 10th level that lets you use it a little more often. I wish more one-off features did something like this, or just started PROF/rest.

Create Minion
FETCHING YES, a necromancer that can finally NECROMANCE before 5th level! I love it.
My one question: is the once per long rest limitation necessary? It takes an hour to create a minion, so you won't be popping minions up at-will during combat to take hits for the party. Just leave the limitation of one minion at a time. IMO, that would keep it pretty comparable to the Beastmaster and the Stitcher, who both get minions with temporary HP that refreshes every time you roll initiative.

Necrotic Mastery/Army of Darkness
I'm going to push back against earlier opinions. I think Army of Darkness should be granted first. I don't have any particular balancing reasons for it, but more rule of cool. When I'm playing a necromancer, I want my undead army before I want to make all my spells do necrotic damage/be resistant to necrotic damage. Both are cool and fun, but I know what I took this archetype for, and the more levels that I get to capitalize on that the better.

Command Undead
I love it. Time to burn up Strahd's Legendary Resistances and use Flash of Insight or Glance the Future to make him fail this save just so I can embarrass him.
Maybe if an undead creature has a really low CR (1, maybe 2) it doesn't make a save each turn?

Spell Lists
Resurrection and True Resurrection as wizard spells! Not only is this fun, but it would be hilarious to play a wizard that kind of flaunts this magic to the cleric. Not only do I have the audacity to flaunt the will of the gods through undeath... I also do it through restoring true life, too! Ha ha ha!

 

[xiphumor]

Loophole to close: The Wight’s Life Drain ability allows you to create additional zombies. Couldn’t you create a Wight minion that then subsequently raises an unlimited undead army?

In fact, if we go forward with this draft, we should check all of the statblocks for weird interactions.

 

[VenerableBede]

An undead army that would subsequently try to murder you since they aren’t under your control (unless they are under the wight’s control, in which case you COULD command them by commanding the wight… but I don’t think that’s the case).

 

[xiphumor]

An undead army that would subsequently try to murder you since they aren’t under your control (unless they are under the wight’s control, in which case you COULD command them by commanding the wight… but I don’t think that’s the case).

From the Wight’s statblock:

Life Drain. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 6 (1d8 + 2) necrotic damage, and the target makes a DC 13 Constitution saving throw. On a failure, the target takes a level of strife and its hit points maximum is reduced by an amount equal to the necrotic damage dealt. The reduction lasts until the target finishes a long rest. A humanoid or beast reduced to 0 hit points by this attack dies. Its corpse rises 24 hours later as a zombie under the wight’s control.