Help me out. PoL. Why don't small towns get overrun?

ainatan said:
Elminster.
Ah, that explains it.

In that case, I think that example only reinforces my point. Do you seriously believe that the innocent people of Shadowdale had any way to protect themselves when Elminster first showed up and took over their town? Do they have any recourse but to ask a powerful group of heroes who come to save them? :p
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Siran Dunmorgan said:
Why haven't we been overrun? The miracle is that we've survived this long. It just hasn't been our time, yet. Maybe someday soon another fellow'll be picking though our bones, and trying to guess at what happened to us. It's a dark time, lad, and like to be getting darker.

—Siran Dunmorgan

You sir, can game with me any time.
 

Ydars said:
Cavemen and Dinosaurs NEVER co-existed.

Sorry to rant but it does sadden me that people learn their "history" "biology" and "anthropology" from movies instead of actually finding out for themselves from real trusted sources. You have to understand that most of what passes for information in this age is MISINFORMATION.

You are technically correct, but only because neither ever existed since the FSM actually created us all only an hour ago.
 


Elder-Basilisk said:
And, a setting can easily remain as points of light for a while, but sooner or later, both players and the DM are going to want some consistency, so the DM will figure out what king just sent the tax collector and what the tax collector said the taxes are for (the king's war against the ____ or reparations to ____ because of the treaty with ______).

It can safely be assumed that tax collectors will not be a common sighting in a PoL setting.
 

KingCrab said:
You are technically correct, but only because neither ever existed since the FSM actually created us all only an hour ago.
whoever said he actually created us we're totally just one of the Flying Spaghetti Monster's bad trips.
 

Deadstop said:
I have heard much the same and am interested in learning more. Though most recently I watched a History Channel documentary that seemed to indicate life was indeed pretty crappy for those living in the first few generations after Roman civilization and organization largely ceased. I don't put forward the History Channel as gospel, but I suspect that such a period of history is the sort of thing we could look at to get an idea of real-life "PoL." It seems likely, as you say, that it was not nearly as bad as some are insisting the D&D PoL would have to be.

Well, one thing to keep in mind about the Early Medieval Period (c.500 to c. 1000 AD) is that conditions across western Europe were not monolithic. For example, if you're measuring the "darkness" by the level of violence and by the lack of political/economic continuity with the conditions present towards the end of Late Antiquity, it's "darkest" in Britain in the 6th century AD, in France in the 10th century AD, in Spain in the 8th century AD, and in Italy in the 7th century AD. One of the things I personally find frustrating when discussing the "Dark Ages" with non-historians is the assumption that because there was such a big disruption to life in Britain in the 6th century, life throughout western Europe was equally disrupted.

If you want to do more reading on the subject, it's probably worth starting with Wikipedia.

Cheers,

Gary Johnson
 

Orcus said:
Didnt you read in the DMG?

1st level monsters stay in the 1st level monster part of the world, which is by the 1st level villages. 5th level monsters stay in the 5th level part of the world. 10th level monsters...you get the drift.

If the 10th level monsters went to the 1st level part of the world, they would just take over. We cant have that, so there have to be restrictions.

Some have postulated that it is like those sonic collar things that you can get for your dog, with the sensors that you put up around your yard. They stay were they are and cant leave the area of they feel an intense pain.

Other than that there is really no good reason, never has been. :)

Clark

I think a better way to phrase this would be:

There are areas of the world where 10th level critters live, why? Maybe they don't like being harassed by 5th level critters. Maybe the 10th level dragon doesn't want to be constantly assaulted by "mercenaries" and small armies from some city-state that have a vested interest in keeping the PoLs relatively safe and have decided to be preemptive and hunt the beast down. A dragon 1, 2 maybe 3 days away is a major concern. A dragon that you need a small army to hunt down, that lives 2-3 weeks away and that can just up and fly away ... that's too much work to hunt unless it makes itself a constant threat. Why are the 5th level critters where they are? Because they'd be crushed by the 10th level critters and for some reason they're not where the 1st level critters are located. Why are the 5th - 2nd level critters where they are instead of where the 1st level critters are located? Maybe environment, maybe the trolls prefer the swamp to the open plains or the thick tangled woods or small caves. Large lumbering trolls wandering open plains near a PoL is asking for the PoL to organize some kind of hunt. Horsemen with bows and some fire = dead trolls. Trolls, deep in a murky swamp? A place where a large strong critter can ignore the slowing effects of hip deep water and mud sounds good for the troll. What's living out in the plains or tangled woods? Goblins with worgs, fast, small and can disappear when the PoL comes looking for the critters that killed the 1 or 2 farming families that built their homes a 15 - 30 minute run outside the wooden palisade of the PoL. There should be a "reasonable" explanation, though the Players may never know it, for why the 10th, 5th or 1st level critter is where it is.

Why do PoL exist, why haven't they been destroyed? Think of a goblin tribe as a single entity, and for this discussion we call the entire tribe a Level 3 critter. Somewhere in your world you have two PoLs. The distance between them is say 2 days. Why 2 days, there's good water at each location, maybe good lumber / farming land / or minerals at those locations. In between? Thick forest, twisted bushes, no water, rocky or hilly terrain. Now, treat each of these PoLs as an entity. Both of these PoLs have enough people and resources to be a Level 4 critter. But these Level 4 critters are only powerful where they are located and only Level 4 because it is a community in a defended position. If you leave the safety of the PoL and walk, say an hour or so down the road, you are no longer safe/protected/watched by the PoL. You have left it's sphere of influence.
Now, a farmer with a wagon of goods wants to trade to the other PoL 2 days away. He's brave/unwise so he goes alone. He's left his PoL and is 2 or 3 hours down the road, he's now out in the wilderness. Maybe he's safe, maybe not. Maybe the wolves, rabid bears or bandits get him. Maybe the wolves aren't hungry and they leave him alone. Maybe the local specie of bear doesn't like or has learned to avoid humans. Maybe the local bandits have moved on / slept in late / or are recovering from attacking a farmer/caravan from the other PoL and they don't notice him.
Now, our farmer is not a warrior, he's not a mage, he's just a farmer. He's got a wagon of goods, team to pull it, enough food and water to get him to the other PoL and back home. He's a >Zero< level Critter. What is this farmer when he's at home / within the sphere of influence of his level 4 PoL? He's part of a level 4 PoL. What is he when he's out in the wilderness? A potential victim for the level 3 goblin tribe, he's a potential victim to a group of four level 1 goblins, never mind the tribe.
The goblins live somewhere between the two PoLs. Directly between? No. Within an hour or so of the road between the PoLs? Most likely not. Maybe they are 6 or 7 hours west of one PoL and therefore 24+ hours east of the other PoL. Most likely these goblins are 6 or 7 hours Northwest of the 1st PoL and therefore 3, 4, maybe 5 hours north of the road between the PoLs.
The goblins are smart enough, just barely, to understand that they don't have the ability to attack either PoL directly. Maybe when the PoL’s population expands too far they can snip off a farming family or two, but the PoL itself, no. Those PoLs have a palisade, they have dogs that can smell the goblins coming, and they have a few woodsman/scouts that keep an eye out for trouble while they go about trapping/hunting/etc. in the woods and wilderness. The goblins because of they're size and (lack of) strength need to be opportunistic. They may not be able to attack the PoLs directly, but that lone farmer and his cart ... now that they can handle. The goblins know that there is travel on a road 4 or 5 hours south of their home. And thusly, they will occasionally sit by the road and see what comes along. Do they do this all the time? No, because they have learned that this draws too much attention and the PoLs will put together a force that can chase the goblins back into the woods. Why not chase the goblins back to their lair? Because the goblins, though small and weak as individuals and small groups, are a much more powerful entity when they get back to their lair. A group of make-shift militia or hired mercenaries are not going to have a good time attacking a warren of twisty passages, pit falls, traps and murder-holes that is the entrance to the goblin tribes home. And thusly, you have a kind of "stale-mate", neither side can invade the other without significant losses or nor do they know that they would win if they were willing to pay the price of those losses.

Now to the thread's original main questions:

Wis said:
If the world is filled with big, bad, evil things in the wilderness that separates scattered settlements, why haven't these towns been overrun?

Does every community have to be a reinforced settlement with walls, a strong militia, etc.? Is there no room for simple hamlets with a couple run-down cottages?

Question 1. In theory, some of those towns have been overrun; they have fallen into darkness and been lost. That's why you need to decide how and where PoLs exist and what's outside of their "Sphere of Influence". Having a small community of say 50 human farmers, scattered over a small valley, living 10 minutes away from a tribe of 40 flesh craving ogres to the east, 30 trolls to the west and an entire orc horde just down the road doesn't make sense. That's a PoL that would fall to the darkness and become extinguished.

Question 2. Yes you could have a simple hamlet with small "central area" and a few scattered cottages. But you'd most likely find that well within the boarders of a "relatively" strong city-state or kingdom. It would be far from "normal" troubles. Would you find such a place far out in the wilderness amongst all the dark and dangerous things of the world? Most likely not. Could it be out in the deep dark wilderness? Yes. But you should find a reason why it hasn't fallen to the darkness. For example what I said above, your cozy hamlet would be "well within the boarders of a 'relatively' strong city-state". Maybe the valley / land around the hamlet is protected by the fey or a powerful curse/blessing, but to have it sitting alone by itself without protection of some sort? That does not seem to work so well. Remember, we're talking about a "Point of Light" type environment. The nature of PoL is it's dangerous to go beyond the edge of the light provided by the small, tight-knit communities. There are things out in that darkness, watching and waiting. Might our farmer and his cart make it to the other PoL? Maybe. Will he make it back home? Maybe. Maybe not.

And just because the level 3 goblin tribe can't defeat our level 4 PoL communities, doesn't mean that at some point in a campaign, further down the "road", that a cult, a creature or a horde of monsters that is stronger, smarter and more dangerous than either PoL won't come along and drag them screaming into the darkness. That's where adventures come in, that's when those communities look to heroes.
 

Wisdom Penalty said:
So, I love the idea of a PoL setting. I'm pilfering maps and themes from various campaign settings, and adding a dash of my own stuff. But a question keeps nagging me during this process, and it's this:

If the world is filled with big, bad, evil things in the wilderness that separates scattered settlements, why haven't these towns been overrun?

Wis
Because the world exist only as a background for PCs to adventure in it.

Well, maybe not so extremixed. but this is the gist of it, things happen because they happen, because the DM want them to happen, if you want more detailed reasons (i.e. a simulationst approach)then ,sorry, but this is 4e, simulationism don't live it anymore, it don't even visit occasionally as sometime did in previous editions.

I mean, you could probably attempt a simulationist approach, but IMHO it is not worth the effort

After all this is a game where the chance to use your more powerful strikes happen only once a day and yet it happen every single day exactly when you want, if you can accept that you can accept that little hamlets can exist in the middle of a monster infested forest without being destroyed.

At least, this is IMHO the best way to see 4e without getting an headache, it is just a game, don't think about it too much.
 

My POL setting is an island. There is one "modern" walled town (which serves as a port to the outside world) and three settlements built in and around monolithic citadels built hundreds of years ago (the populace no longer has the means to build such structures). Each settlement is autonomous like a tiny city state. There is also an indigenous culture of nomadic humans that I suppose simply run from the worst threats and combat the lesser ones. They live in small bands three seasons out of the year and gather in fortified camps for the winter. There is also a reclusive dwarf enclave high in one mountain range and rumors of elven settlements in a wood crawling with Fey.
 

Remove ads

Top